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I'll be visiting a shop (Main Drag Music in Brooklyn, NY) that currently has a 1989 Heritage Sweet 16, a 1950 Gibson L-50, and a 1972 Gibson ES-175. I have a couple of questions:
1. Is it possible to install a floating pick-up on the L-50? If so, would the result be good? Here's the guitar:
CA. 1950 Gibson L-50 | Main Drag Music | Reverb
2. I can't find what type of pickup is on the Heritage Sweet 16. Is there a general type of pickup that Heritage uses on these guitars? Here it is: 1989 Heritage Sweet 16 | Main Drag Music | Reverb
3. Given that the ES-175 is laminate, I'm guessing that it's acoustic sound should be worse than the other two guitars. Does a laminate guitar have any advantages over a solid guitar?
(This is my first post to this forum. I've learned a lot from you all!)
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01-16-2019 01:33 AM
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Welcome to the forum.
That is a very diverse selection of guitars you've partly listed. I had to go to the stores site to find the two ES175's they have for sale. I'm a big Heritage fan and 1989 is a nice year. I am surprised it's a floating pickup model, those are usually set pickup. But they are nice.
The L50 is out of my realm of experience but I am sure many could chime in. It's the cheapest of your choices, if you modify it by adding a pickup try to have a tech do it in such a way so that if you choose to sell later (and you probably will) the work can be undone and it can look stock again (thus keeping more of it's resale value).
The 175's are monster guitars - I think most cats here would say they have THE THUNK and are really wonderful players. Yeah they aren't acoustically that loud, but they aren't made to be. They're made to be used on stage with an amp and can really sound magnificent. Unfortunately the 1958 has replace pickups so it's way overpriced in my eyes. The 1979, well I'm not crazy about late 70s (volute) Gibsons. I'd pass on them.
My vote: even though I like 175s a lot I'd pass on those (but man there are some real sweethearts out there I'd keeping looking). I'd go to really try out the Sweet 16 since you sound like you want to play acoustically by your comments. BUT I would encourage you to keep looking around too. There's some great instruments out there.
Good luck, and Welcome
BigLast edited by BigMikeinNJ; 01-16-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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The L-50 will have limited clearance between the strings and top so pickup choices will be limited.
The Heritage probably has a Heritage humbucking floater. Some guys like them, others replace them with a hand made Kent Armstrong.
The 72 175 will be an electric guitar with little acoustic volume, but, IMO, will be a better jazz guitar than the other two. Don't take my word for it. Ask Jim Hall, Joe Pass or Herb Ellis (though you will need a very good medium to do that! )
Welcome to the forum!
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A Dearmond floater will work, but you typically cannot get it too close to the neck on an L-48/L-50/L-4 before running out of clearance because of the way in which the neck is attached to the body. Marginal differences between individual L-48/L-50/L-4 guitars affect how far up floaters can go. Here's one L-4 (same guitar, fancier trim) with a Dearmond FHCC as far up as it could go. Sounded fantastic in that spot - more bite, less bass. Depends on the sound you want.
Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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1. An L-50's neck is flush with the top. There's no neck extension to fasten a rod too, and and not enough room under the strings to mount a typical floater from the pickguard. People here have posted about their solutions --- some have cut holes in the top and installed set-in pickups. Some have used an extra-thin pickup such as a Krivo (KRIVO PICKUPS - Home), which is thin enough. You might also be able to use a DeArmond "monkey on a stick" mounted from the bridge end, but the pickup will have to sit toward the center rather than the neck (where there's more string clearance), which will give it a different sound from the neck position. Originally Posted by SaintTikhon
2. Don't know.
3. Laminates feed back less and usually sound different from carved tops. A lot of people think of laminates as the classic jazz guitar sound (Joe Pass, Jimmy Raney, Jim Hall, Herb Ellis, Tal Farlow). But carved tops are classic, too (Wes, Kenny Burrell, Johnny Smith, early Pat Martino). A carved top with a floating pickup is essentially an acoustic guitar (when played unplugged). A carved top with a set-in pick-up is essentially an electric guitar (though many are pretty loud unplugged). Some laminates with floaters are acoustic-ish and almost loud enough to be played as such, but basically laminates are electric guitars irrespective of how the the pickup is mounted. Better vs worse is subjective and a function of one's needs; only you can say whether one is better than the other.
John
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+1 Stringswinger, John A., and Hammertone. They nail it.
I say this as owner of a L-50, ES-175, and a Heritage. All great guitars. L-50 is an excellent acoustic jazz guitar. I use mine all the time. The ES-175 is THE thunky jazz guitar we associate with the great jazz sounds of the 50s-80s. Heritages are just very special guitars.
I used to use the same DeArmond on my "50" that Hammertone shows on his L-4. Great guitar/pickup. That's exactly how close to the neck the DA goes on the L-50, too.
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Install a CC or a Bigsby-style pickup in that L50! The CC L50 below is mine. The (TK Smith) Bigsby is not, but it absolutely would have been if I had spotted it on time!
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As to the Heritage floating pickups, there are two that I'm familiar with. The older ones are fairly low output and sound a bit anemic to me, while the newer ones are hotter, fuller, and darker.
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The actual ad says 1979 ES175
1979 Gibson ES-175D | Main Drag Music | Reverb
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Wildwood Music in Coshocton, Ohio has a 1948 L50 for sale, asking for $998. Complete Inventory Wildwood Music
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To that I reiterate my suggestion to have a good look around Reverb for other ES175's, Sweet 16's and L50s.
The guys here are really fond of the L50's and rightfully so. I did a quick search on Sweet 16's and man there are some real beauties for sale right now. My "beef" with the one you listed here is the placement of the pickup is a little "south" of where most Sweet 16 pickups are mounted - you would likely get a more trebly tone than say if the pickup was placed at the end of the fingerboard. The Sweet 16 is a very comfortable sized guitar and great value. I've been Blessed enough to own two, I have one now and love it.
Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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As usual BigMike is right
Here's a pic of my beloved Sweet 16
As you can see, pick is perfectly "north" situated
No tone control (but maybe someday I'll think about installing one)
Great guitar to play acoustic (no need for tone control, so !)
Great guitar to play electric
Great guitar !
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You will almost certainly be able to get one of the slim Krivo putty-mounted pickups into the neck position on the L50 but you will (almost certainly) have to either remove or modify the pickguard so there is clearance for the cable. I have a couple of those Krivos (a single-coil and the new 16-pole humbucker that is based on the same design) and they sound really good on a lightly-built acoustic archtop.
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Beware
I am an enabler.
This guitar is on eBay. Mahogany neck, single pickup. Pretty clean looking
1965 Gibson ES-175 Original Single Pu Guitar | eBay
I think during the 70s ES175s had maple necks, perhaps giving a brighter tone
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"No tone control (but maybe someday I'll think about installing one)"
Repeating myself here but, roll guitar volume off and crank your amp up to at least 1/2 way up or even a bit more, now slowly roll your guitar volume up to where you want it. You should have a nice fat sound with somewhat attenuated treble/highs.
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Install a CC or a Bigsby-style pickup in that L50! The CC L50 below is mine. The (TK Smith) Bigsby is not, but it absolutely would have been if I had spotted it on time!
I am very interested in this option. When did you do it? What CC pickup did you use? Is it a big deal to do? Thanks.
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Go and PLAY the guitars. That is how you will know. You may get a wonderful surprise. You may leave the store with 2 guitars!
And you may not even notice if the 175 has a volute. My L5 has one, and I don't even know its there. Volutes used to be standard, and they add strength. A great guitar is a great guitar.
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Thanks for all of the excellent responses.
I tried out the 1979 ES 175 and the Heritage Sweet 16 this afternoon. I played them both acoustically and through a Hot Rod Deluxe, which I spent a while modifying to a clean tone that emphasizes mids and removes shrill highs and boomy lows. Both guitars sounded great, but I was surprised that I liked both pickups in the ES 175: I've never cared for a neck pickup before. That there are two pickups that I like makes this guitar more versatile for me.
On the other hand, the Heritage is, in my view, a more aesthetically appealing guitar.
I much prefer the ES 175 (however, since not all ES 175s are exactly the same, what I experienced may not hold true for all ES 175s). The one I played had far lower action than I've ever had on any of my guitars. While playing the heritage, it was like playing basketball while wearing shoes that are not meant for playing sports: you can do it, but it makes you play worse. By contrast, the ES-175's low action on my fingers made it feel easier for me to play confidently and without making technical errors.
None of my guitars (an Ibanez AF75G and a Squier Jazzmaster (J Mascis)) have very low action: they may be holding me down as someone who uses a guitar as a creative tool and companion. I may put in an offer although I like other finishes of the ES 175 better.
Anyway, thought I'd share my experience before bed.
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Most interesting response once you visited the shop. Sone places don't have a decent tech on site so some of the guitars they try to sell aren't properly setup, maybe the old strings are still on it, all kinds of stuff. Especially interesting to me is you state you like the option of the bridge pickup as your primary source of amplification. Now I'm a big Ibanez GB10 fan, and my reason or liking it so much: it has a bridge pickup that I can blend in with the neck pickup - so I get the beef of the neck pickup with a little sparkle from the bridge pickup (like a steak with a glass of champagne),
Hopefully playing those gave you an insight to what they are like - they're not all the same, heck guitars from the same batch of builds can be radically different. It pays to try out a lot of guitars.
Again, welcome to this motley crew of guitar crazies
Big
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Originally Posted by Phil59
I did it last October. I got a great deal on the guitar such that it was a no brainer. The installation was expensive, but I went with one of the best guys in the area and he did a perfect (I mean absolutely perfect) job. The pickup is from CC Pickups - Pickups. I went with the 150N, which is notched under the B string to ensure proper balance with pure nickel strings. This pickup is the one everyone recommends. I don't know of anyone else out there that makes an authentic replica with the long bar magnet.
If anyone spots a cheap black L50, be sure to let me know ASAP because I'm crazy about that TK Smith customization in my post above.
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