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I'm playing in a group that rehearses in a small practice room. We consist of a drummer, vibes, trumpet, amplified acoustic double bass, and guitar. So that I don't have to bring and amp with me to practice, I use the Fender Blues Jr that's already there. I cannot hear myself. It's not a volume question, it's straight up mud. I've tried turning the Blues Jr Bass all the way down and still encounter it. On stage or in a bigger room, it's no problem, but in this room everything sounds like crap. Any tips on how I can be heard? I'm open to tips that don't cost money (such as repositioning the amp), but this is a gear forum after all so if someone has a magical pedal that will give me perfect EQ, compression, and talent let me know. I'm thinking about bringing in my Henriksen Bud to see if the EQ on that will help me dial in the right sound.
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01-16-2019 12:45 PM
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Is the Blues Jr pointed at your ankles or your ears? If it’s not pointing to your ears that may solve some issues, even getting it off the floor could clean up the bass tones - worth a try at least.
And/or take the Bud and see how it compares (probably favourably)
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Well, someone had to do it - might as well be me! Here you go:
Seriously, try just putting it up on a chair.
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For the record, I've been playing with the amp tilted back. That helped a bit. I'll try the chair and take my Bud to the next practice.
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Tubescreamer? Gain on 0.
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You rehearse?
Kidding. But what guitar? I use Blues Jr all the time in my school, and it's a very bright amp, takes a lot of effort to dial in a 'jazz' tone if I want it. But cutting through is never a problem, even in a room with crazy kids playing crazy loud!
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I'm actually thinking along those lines. Boost the mids and incorporate some compression. The band is playing Don Cherry, and my part has to sustain and cut through. Going for a smooth and clean tone, but not the traditional more staccato jazz tone. I'm using my Grez Mendocino in this group, not an archtop.
Originally Posted by Tal_175
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How big is the room? We are literally bumping into each other in this room. I'm standing 4 feet from the drums, and the bassist is standing between us! Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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about 12x10 feet. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Sounds like you guys are bumping all over each other.
How about turn up the treble and turn down with the bass? I also suggest trying turn up the amp volume and adjust for volume from guitar control. I mean you are talking about a Blues Junior here, not necessarily going to be the most nuanced and subtle tone ever, but I'll bet it has more than what you need for practice in that small room
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Well that's the other part of it. Because the band is so loud, I have to have the blues jr up to the breaking point (or maybe I just don't know how to use this amp and keep it clean). When it starts to drive it gets muddier. Originally Posted by Longways to Go
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Too many too loud instruments in too small a space... so you're not going to clear it up. You need to find a much bigger space
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In a room that small, everybody should be playing piano (volume, not the instrument). Playing at performance volume in that space is insane to start with. I would either try putting the amp on something that gets it at or near ear level and using earplugs, or else quit. I'd have to really love the music and the group in order to put up with that. But of course I'm not you, and you're not me. In any case, get the amp up high. If you've ever seen any photos of Charlie Christian playing with a group, the amp is always up - on the piano, on a chair, or someplace else up high. A small amp on the floor can be very hard to hear.
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The problem may be reflected sound from all the instruments.
Bigger space or play quieter.
Failing that, EQ'ing out a lot of the lower frequencies and avoiding the lower strings on guitar may help. And by lower, I mean you may need to include the D string along with the E and A. It is possible to comp on G and B strings and sometimes sounds better.
You didn't mention which guitar, but in a situation like this an archtop has a tendency to put out too much energy in the low-mid area. Something like a Strat or Tele may cut through better.
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Dang, that sounds like a really loud room. Makes me wonder how the vibes player hangs in there. . .
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Perfect. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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Wooow, I hardly have to turn it up half way to fill the room! You sure you guys are jazz band, not hardcore? lol Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
I remember the only time I had the mud issue when I was experimenting with different pickups, and I put SD JB, a high output humbucker, in the tele bridge, when i had a single in the neck, so pots were 250K. I play and teach mostly rock/pop in school. So when we were playing some rock song, there was a total mud tone from that pickup. But then I changed pots, and all was good.
I'd seriously consider the guitar you use, its setup, strings etc. Some guitars are less cutting than others, it's a fact.
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I had a regular octet gig during which, for reasons I couldn't identify, my gear sounded muddy. The room was huge, so it wasn't reflected sound. It was worse there than in our much smaller rehearsal room.
I ended up comping a lot on the G and B strings.
I'm really not sure what was wrong, but my suspicion is that the kb was too loud. Comping with the D and G strings was too close to the pianist's (loud) left hand. The bassist used a really small amp which may have been putting out more overtones than fundamental, which ends up in the same frequency range. Add in a pretty loud drummer, and the storm is perfect.
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Did I mention we're playing Don Cherry, Pharoah Sanders, Albert Ayler, Ornette Coleman tunes? Yes it's loud. Yes it's a hardcore band, kind of. We get extremely loud and extremely quiet at times. With the Don Cherry stuff it's more loud than quiet at the moment. Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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You said you have no problem in bigger rooms. Do you use that same amp in bigger rooms? Maybe it's just a bad amp.
Are there any soft surfaces in this tiny room or is it all hard surfaces? If it's the latter things are going to sound crappy if the music gets the least bit loud. If that's the problem a chair might help. Getting the amp closer to your ear so you need less volume will help. Turning the reverb off will help. Getting everyone to turn down as much as possible will help. But some room environments are just gonna sound crappy. You can mitigate the problem but probably not cure it. You can't EQ your way out of it. It's physics.
A bigger room might solve the problem, but if you don't have any alternatives then you just make the best of it.
Good luck, and don't let bad sound distract you from playing and enjoying the music. If you get the music right it'll sound good in another venue. That's what matters.
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Maybe it's the ear-plugs you're undoubtedly wearing to protect your precious hearing :-0
Nice repertoire! It's probably the drummer's fault.
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Room acoustics may be a factor here, but to address your Blues Jr. amp situation, my suggestion is two-fold: Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
1. Ask the other musicians to turn down.
2.
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I used to go to a jam session and when I got stuck playing through one particular BJ, it really sucked with hum buckers. Mud. The owner played a Tele, so it was fine for him!
I would crank the treble, drop the bass and mids, and still, that amp sucked. The BJ on the other side of the stage was bright and beautiful.
The amps can differ. Who knows what speakers they had, but I refused to play in that one amp after a while. Garbage, and yet I've played through some great BJ's.
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A 12x10 room seems too small to play at drum volume unless you have wood surfaces, carpets or drapes and a gentle drummer.
You didn’t mention room materials. If most surfaces are hard it seems pretty much hopeless. I’ve been in two bands that had to move rehearsals from a room with good acoustics to cinder block and concrete boxes. It sounded so awful I began dreading rehearsals so soon left both bands.
Rooms have such a great effect on tone that you might consider the room as part of the instrument. If you’re determined to make it work, try to add some carpet, hang some blankets, etc. Amps tend to create resonances when they are placed near floors, walls, or especially corners, so get the amp elevated and away from those. Try different position and angles to see if any seem to tame the resonances.
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You might try a ZT Lunchbox. Not the most tuneful of beasts, but it sure cuts.
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