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Jazz forum fellow musicians;
As a beginner, I just bought a Fender FA-135CE Concert Acoustic-Electric Guitar to start playing. I have always loved jazz,
but a light bulb came on, now I am interest in learning jazz guitar.
Been playing drums since 60's. While playing with our R&B/pop group in 70's, Jimi Hendrix guitarist (Larry lee) played
with us for a while. But at 68 yrs. I am a newbie and interested in jazz guitar now. I am committed. George Benson,
Earl Klugh, Kenney Burrell are some of my favorites. What's your thoughts about starting with the Fender Acoustic-Electric for jazz?
Thanks for the feedback in advance.
Charles A.
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02-22-2019 06:32 PM
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The best guitar is the one you play. And yes, virtually any guitar will do the trick.
I don’t know about that particular model, but I recently got a flattop travel guitar that is really nice and does have a nice feel and sound for jazz.
Make sure it is set up right so you’re not struggling with chords, random buzzing, etc. Get some “mellow” strings like Pure Nickels. There are also some bronze flats (D’Daddario Flattops) that will have a nice feel with little string noise and a warm tone.
If you keep it up you may find you want to get more guitars. Don’t laugh, it’s happened. LOL. If you want to try an archtop, you’ll find plenty of advice on this forum.
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Nothing wrong with jazz on a flat top
I love flat top acoustics. Mine are set up with regular old phosphor bronze 12 round strings.
For a jazz approach, one thing you might find useful is a thicker pick like a Fender Heavy or a Duncan 208 or a Pro-Plec.
But mostly, moving into jazz is going to be about learning lots of cool chords, and practicing hard on your scales and arpeggios.
And of course learning tunes. The blues are sure a great starting point for developing your jazz language !!!
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Ultimately you will need to get another guitar. Acoustic guitars are designed for strumming loud chords, and they do the job like no other. Can a player do more with them? Of course! There are many examples.
But they are sub-optimal to say the last for so-called "lead" guitar.
Lighter strings and proper nut slot depth are your first priorities. Then give it a year or so and think about your next guitar.
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I don't agree with this. I think a well set up acoustic guitar can sound great for single note playing. I do agree, however, that they are not ultimately the best choice for jazz, at least in the mainstream sense. And by the way, this may be just me, but my concept of jazz guitar does not entail "rhythm" and "lead" as much as it involves milking everything you can out of your instrument. Comping can incorporate single notes, and soloing can involve harmonizing your lines.
Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Jazz can be played on any type of guitar. So long as the playabilty is good and the tone inspires the player, all is perfect. Gabor Szabo spent his career playing jazz on a flattop and was a better jazz guitarist (this opinion is based on my experience) than anyone who pronounces that you need a specific type of guitar in order to play jazz well or properly.
As proof of my assertion, I offer the following list of great jazz guitarists who did not/do not play hollow body archtops:
Gabor Szabo: Flattop (Martin Style)
Ed Bickert: Solidbody (Fender Style)
Charlie Byrd: Classical
Oscar Aleman: Resonator
Django Reinhardt: Selmer style hybrid
Larry Carleton: Semi-hollow (335)
And there are many others. Play the guitar that inspires your playing. Love the one you are with.
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It just always seems to sound better on a Gibson guitar through a Fender amp..
just sayin..
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You have the acoustic so play the acoustic. Jazz guitar is a big universe. The only limit on the choice of instrument is when you shrink the definition to predefined boundaries. Explore with your guitar to see where it takes you. (And if you want to the hear just how powerful an acoustic can be for playing jazz check out Pat Metheny's "One Quiet Night" and "What's It All About", both acoustic jazz masterpieces.)
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You can play jazz on really any playable guitar because the equipment does not make it jazz the player does. In fact jazz is really hard to completely define and in some sense it is almost as much an attitude along with a lived ear experience. At some point a person gets proficient enough to decide what they want to hear a certain sound out of a guitar and go on a journey looking. This can be a lifelong process if you get real serious.
That said somethings we do can help the situation. If get on my road bike I don't need a lot of excess weight or clothing flapping in the air to slow me down, so I can dress correct and avoid needless weight. A Gibson WesMo L5 could do a lot to improve ones chances but is not the only way. Guys in the tour de france will still beat me carry around a load of bricks in their jersey pockets.
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None of the above contradicts what I said, although some get an A for effort. Just different shades of grey. And switching the topic to great players, classical guitars, and Gypsy guitars was off topic. It's about the tool in question, a flattop acoustic guitar, a cowboy guitar, in other words. I've been the proud owner of a couple myself.
But as I said, it's sub-optimal - that doesn't mean "bad". But one can do better, it's not really an argument. Want to swim in molasses with high action in the middle and upper regions of the fretboard? Want boomy mids that have to be EQ'd to death? Want to make sure that you can't be heard in a loud band? Want the audience to hear lots of finger squeaks in your solo work? Then you have the right tool, lol.
So, adapt, adapt, adapt if you like. Or, just get some jazz under your fingers for a while and then get the right tool for the job when ready.
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"If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with."
Then get with the one you love when you know what you need.
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Sorry but I disagree with all of this. I also think that referring to acoustic guitars as "cowboy guitars" is both absurd and demeaning to a lot of great acoustic players. Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Really? That's like saying a monkey wrench is insulting to a mechanic. So I disagree in return. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
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I don't see any cowboys in these performances. Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
My friend, you are off topic once again. Talking about strong pro players, and different instruments (fanned fret with cutaway, and nylon string with cutaway). Good grief.
Metheny is from Kansas, and was considered as sounding like such when he appeared at Berklee. Here he is playing a Beatles song, one with a Latin feel, and yes finger squeaks. Regardless - not jazz. (edit wrong song, but even more to my point. Carli Simon? Folkie pop)
Finally - What do you have against cowboys? Where I come from "cowboy" is not a pejorative.
To the OP. Everybody has an opinion, and people love to debate. Just remember this - actions speak louder than words. What were the primary (not only) instruments chosen by Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, Joe Pass, Wes Montgomery, Jim Hall, Kenny Burrell, George Benson, Pat Martino, Larry Coryell, John McLaughlin, Pat Metheny, and scores of others?
Who ya gonna believe? The Jazz Guitar Forum, or your lyin' eyes?
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What I'm reading is that if you want to sound like the dominant players of the 50's and 60's you should use the tools that they used. And you're right: if you want to sound like Charlie Christian, Barney Kessel, Tal Farlow, Joe Pass, etc. then it's probably easier if you use the gear they used. I just happen to think that's an awfully narrow definition of jazz guitar. Originally Posted by Jazzstdnt
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Fair enough, and those sound examples above are very nice performances indeed. Originally Posted by Jim Soloway
But I would challenge anyone to do a blind fold test of the above with a random sample of average (non-jazz) music listeners and ask them to describe style, and expect the answer to be "jazz".
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Not sure McLaughlin belongs in there. His primary instrument for his acoustic work is a flat top steel string, often with an arched back, sometimes with some extra strings. And far and away most of his electric playing is on solid body. (yes.... I know about his brief run with the...L5 was it?). Wether or not it's jazz is a different discussion. It sure ain't cowboy music though.
I think this is all way off topic. You can play anything you want on any instrument you want. And you can change to a different one at anytime you feel the limitations of one or the other is getting in the way. The OP can get a Barney Kessel when he's ready for that.
Calling flat-tops cowboy guitars is hyperbole though.
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Flat tops work fine. Invest in a good setup.
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As another late stage (60's and recently retired) jazz beginner, who loves the same artists as you, my only recommendation would be to keep listening and practicing. The specific instrument you choose will be a natural decision as you progress. If all you have is a flat top, then dig in and learn on it. Originally Posted by charles a.
The next step is to go to music stores and try out some jazz guitars (full hollow archtops, semi-hollow gits, and even toss in a few solid body guitars such as Teles), which all work for playing jazz.
After you find a guitar that is both comfortable for you to play, next consider using flatwound or half round strings to thicken up your tone.
I think finding a guitar that you love to play is the biggest motivator to study jazz. You will get as many opinions and suggestions of what you should buy as there are jazz players. Its not up to anyone to tell you what is best for you.
So, enjoy the hunt for YOUR instrument to learn jazz.
And welcome to the forum!
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I guess as a newbie, I really open up a great discussion. But, I thank all of you and seriously appreciate your input and advice.
Now, I have been encouraged and inspired to stick with my plans to take every measure to learn jazz guitar, no matter what type guitar I end up with in 12 months from now. But I am determine to succeed.
Thanks again Jazz Guitar Forum!
charles a
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Right, a very special guitar that acoustic is/was. (Nylon string?) Anyway, not like your average acoustic steel string guitar. And an electric is not an acoustic flat top - did you think this was about archtops? JM has played a number of archtops as well, FWIW, but this isn't about archtops - its about NOT acoustics. :0 Originally Posted by ccroft
The best argument for an acoustic for jazz, is an acoustic guitar made with jazz playing mind. People make 'em ya know.
Cowboy guitars are cowboy guitars whether some object to the designation or not. Or folkie guitars, same dif. Blues and rock guitars are that too. Same for jazz, classical guitars, you name it. Sure, players use them for different applications sometimes, but that's not the central point.
The bottom line is that acoustics are made for what I said in my first post on this topic. Open string chords, strumming, and projecting like no other non-electric guitar can. They do it well. Their design is "fit for purpose". That's success.
And - what goes with it is high action, heavy strings, boomy mids and lows, feedback if you amplify and crank, and finger squeaks for single note stuff.
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To echo everybody: YOU CAN PLAY JAZZ ON ANYTHING...IF YOU HAVE AN ACCORDION...PLAY ON.
A flat top guitar works great.
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your fender will be fantastic; dig in
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Not all of us squeak on a flat top.
I run single note lines above the 12th fret all the time with no issues.
Not particularly fancy strings either, just phosphor bronze 12 rounds.
But I will say that coated strings tame finger noise nicely.
I don't care much for Elixir's on acoustic, but D'addario EXPs are great
and I'm currently really enjoying Cleartones.
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