Koch Jupiter JUNIOR 20W

[Kunji]

Been looking at this amp recently, but there's so little about them online. It's a 20W tube/ss hybrid. Anyone knows them, or at least the bigger 45W version?

I already own a 1978 Fender Pro Reverb and it's probably the greatest amp I'll ever get to play, but it's huge and it weights almost as much as my girlfriend, so I can't justify lugging it to certain gigs. I bought a ZT Lunchbox with its matching cabinet but I don't really like its sound that mutch, the single 'tone' cntrol knob is not enough for me, plus it's already broke twice, so I'm getting rid.

So I'm looking at the Jupiter Junior. It costs more than DV Mark Little Jazz or the ZT, is that justified?
I play modern jazz, love nice clean tone but also use overdrive, delay, reverb and some synthy effects.
so any opinions very welcome, and suggestions for other smallish or medium-sized amps around the €500 mark.

Thanks!

[Kunji]

Here's the one and only demo of the amp on the internet.

[IbanezAS100]

Haven't played the 20W one, but the Jupiter 45 is an excellent amp that I would happily recommend. Great cleans, a very usable gain channel, nice reverb and sounds great at low volumes.

[Kunji]

Ok thank you. I see there's one used in Germany, but it's had its original speaker replaced by this;
12" Tornado Classic 100 | Jensen Loudspeakers
Any opinions on this, is it an upgrade on stock speakers?

[ruger9]

Don't know anything about that amp, but Koch amps seem to have a very good reputation in general.

Their new "The Greg" (Greg Koch signature amp) I want very badly; I think it would be the perfect do-all gigging amp (not for jazz, for everything else).

[Hammertone]

Haven't played the 20W one, but the Jupiter 45 is an excellent amp that I would happily recommend. Great cleans, a very usable gain channel, nice reverb and sounds great at low volumes.

I agree - I've had a few of these that I got from Koch at NAMM. My impression of the Jupiter Jr. is that it's the same, just smaller. I played it at NAMM last year and this year, but ended up grabbing the last Koch SE-6 and SE-12 instead (these are no longer available, which is a bad move by Koch [ed: as of 2020, they are back]).

Don't know anything about that amp, but Koch amps seem to have a very good reputation in general. Their new "The Greg" (Greg Koch signature amp) I want very badly; I think it would be the perfect do-all gigging amp (not for jazz, for everything else).

They make great amps. I've used the Jupiter, Studiotone head and combo, Studiotone XL head and combo, Twintone II combo, Twintone III head, SE-6 and SE-12 combos, and 2x12 and 4x12 cabs. Great amps, less-than-great distribution and marketing.

They were slowed down by various difficulties for awhile, but they are now making a bunch of Greg amps to catch up, and have a new North American distributor (SFM out of Montreal - we'll see how they do). No reason why the Greg wouldn't work great for jazz, BTW. Sort of like a Fender Vibrolux Reverb but with a pile of additional functionality.

[Kunji]

Hey Hammertone, thank you for replying.

What would you say are the main differences between the Jupiters and the Classic SE's? Did it ever bother you that the Classic SE only has the single tone knob, or did the two bass/mid swithces have a large enough effect on the tone?

And how big are the differences between the smaller (jupiter20 & se6) and bigger models (jupiter45 & se12), is it just the power, or also quality of sound? Could you do a gig with a drummer with the smaller ones? There are quite a few Classic SE's available used in Italy, so I might have a look.

Lots of questions, I know thanks

[child as audience]

While you’re waiting, here’s a Hammertone inspired video of a Hofner Jazzica being played through a Studiotone.

[Hammertone]

What would you say are the main differences between the Jupiters and the Classic SE's? Did it ever bother you that the Classic SE only has the single tone knob, or did the two bass/mid swithces have a large enough effect on the tone?

And how big are the differences between the smaller (jupiter20 & se6) and bigger models (jupiter45 & se12), is it just the power, or also quality of sound? Could you do a gig with a drummer with the smaller ones? There are quite a few Classic SE's available used in Italy, so I might have a look.

Lots of questions, I know thanks

Totally different amps, different design, different purposes.
The Classic SE-6 and SE-12 are little Class A screamers. Great for practice, great for recording. The SE-6 is in the same kind of space as a Fender Champ, but with a 12" speaker, a few neat and useful features (can drive an exterior cab at 4/8/16 ohms; three very useful tone mini-switches, tone control, master volume, recording out). The SE-6 toggles between 6 and 2 watts, and the SE-12 toggles between 12 and 4 watts. The SE-6 can be powered with a 6V6 or an EL84 power tube for different sounds. the SE-12 can be powered with a 6L6/5881 or an EL34 for different sounds. The idea was to make a simple amp with a fairly direct line between the input jack and the speaker. It just so happens that they are in relatively small, light, portable boxes. Originally, they both came in the same teeny box. Then Koch decided to put the bigger one in a bigger box, even though the amp guts are the same size. The bigger box along with the extra power improves the clean sound of the amp, and puts it into Princeton territory. It reminds me of a simpler (and much less expensive) version of the original Carr Mercury (a Class A amp that toggles between 8, 2, 1/2 and 1/10 watt).

OTOH, the Jupiter is a highly practical, compact, hybrid, gigging amp, designed to provide a lot of tonal versatiity in a lightweight, cost-effective manner. 45 watts is perfect for all sorts of gigs. It covers a lot of ground, sounds great for what it is, and represents great value. To me, the 45 watt Jupiter is really the most useful as a gigging jazz / blues / rock /all-purpose amp. The 20 watt Jupiter JR. might pull its weight, but I haven't tested it out in a gigging environment and don't have one to play with here.

[Kunji]

Wow, thanks for a very informative post.
I'm pretty sure the Jupiter is what I need. I have the option to get a used 45 with a new Jensen speaker for less than the price of a new 20, so I think I'll go for that.

[Hammertone]

Here's another neat trick if you get a Koch Jupiter Combo.
It is the same width as the Koch Studiotone Plus head. Or accommodates a smaller-footprint Studiotone head. I did this with a Starpooper Combo (identical to a Jupiter but black vinyl covering instead of green, with minor voicing differences) box that came back to me without the amp in it. Cool beans all around!

[Gitterbug]

Koch is in very close cooperation with Jensen. My former Studiotone 20W had a Jensen-made driver that weighed a ton. Never got ´round to swapping it as the amp was our reference while testing TOOB prototypes. However, Rudi Koch recommended the 12" Tornado, which is now standard in my 12" cabs. Well over a hundred installed, not a single lemon. On request, I also make 10" versions, both basic and telescopic, using the Tornado 100. It's probably the best-sounding Neo speaker I've come across. It costs over twice as much as the original Falcon, and there's no weight saving, so it's got to be an upgrade from a tonal point of view. This is, of course, a matter of taste.

BTW, the 20W Jupiter Junior has been listed by Thomann since August last year. Not a huge seller, ranking #125 among tube combos, but all three reviewers give it straight five stars. Weight: 12 kg. Hmmm... that's why I'm in the business.

[Hammertone]

Sica in Italy makes Jensen, MOD and a variety of other branded speakers, as well as OEM speakers for Koch, AER and others.

The Koch Jupiter series are hybrid amps, with solid-state power sections (modified with Koch "ATR" tech, that uses a 12ax7 to get the power section of the amp to work in a tube-like way), and some tube functionality in their preamp sections (12ax7 preamp tube). Practical, compact, inexpensive, good-sounding gear.

The Studiotones and Twintone III series are full-featured tube amps, with significantly more functionality and higher price tags. Great amps, IMO, but Koch has no real presence in North America.

[conchmusic]

I really appreciate this post - I was unaware of these amps and they may just be what I've been looking for. I've been trying to find a Princeton Reverb style amp with an attenuator and a line out, and after a lot of research I concluded that the best value is probably a '65 PRRI and an Ironman Mini. It sounds like this could be a compromise choice for a lot less. Unfortunately I've had a hard time discerning from the few youtube clips I've heard, including the excellent one above from Roli Muller and Torsten Goods, whether the Jupiter (Jr. or 45) can generate a Fender-ish tone. If any of you have heard one in person and can comment I'd appreciate it.

[Squeezebox]

Probably too late for the original poster, but I ordered a Koch Jupiter Junior today. Now the wait begins..

Great amps, less-than-great distribution and marketing.

After looking into this amp and talking to a local distributor about Koch, this is a good summary.

There is seemingly little info on these out there, so I will try to give some impressions once it arrives and do a longer review once the honeymoon period has settled down. My first NAD in a long time!

[patshep]

Totally different amps, different design, different purposes.
The Classic SE-6 and SE-12 are little Class A screamers. Great for practice, great for recording. In the same kind of space as a Fender Champ, but with a 12" speaker, a few neat and useful features (can drive an exterior cab at 4/8/16 ohms; three very useful tone mini-switches, tone control, master volume, recording out). The SE-6 toggles between 6 and 2 watts, and the SE-12 toggles between 12 and 4 watts. The SE-6 can be powered with a 6V6 or an EL84 power tube for different sounds. the SE-12 can be powered with a 6L6/5881 or an EL34 for different sounds. The idea was to make a simple amp with a fairly direct line between the input jack and the speaker. It just so happens that they are in relatively small, light, portable boxes. Originally, they both came in the same teeny box. Then Koch decided to put the bigger one in a bigger box, even though the amp guts are the same size. They remind me of simpler (and much less expensive) versions of the original Carr Mercury (a Class A amp that toggles between 8, 2, 1/2 and 1/10 watt).

OTOH, the Jupiter is a highly practical, compact, hybrid, gigging amp, designed to provide a lot of tonal versatiity in a lightweight, cost-effective manner. 45 watts is perfect for all sorts of gigs. It covers a lot of ground, sounds great for what it is, and represents great value. To me, the 45 watt Jupiter is really the most useful as a gigging jazz / blues / rock /all-purpose amp. The 20 watt Jupiter JR. might pull its weight, but I haven't tested it out in a gigging environment and don't have one to play with here.

I wouldn't classify them by grouping them as "jupiter20/se6" and "bigger jupiter45 & se12", since I would not use either SE model on a gig except a blues gig where distortion would be appropriate, or a very quiet solo/duo jazz gig. I specifically got the SE-6 for blues jam sessions because it's so easy to throw in the car. I only sold it because someone really wanted it and showered me with an appropriate pile of money.

My SE-12 is now the subject of some mad science, because the box is big and empty - I am in the process of shoe-horning a 15" JBL K-130 into it, strictly for laughs. I really like wide-range 15" speakers, and that JBL has a 103 db SPL, so it might turn out to be a useful little jazz amp as well as a fantastic compact blues amp. I can also use it as a mini-cab for my Koch Studiotone. We shall see.

I'm so glad somebody has played these, I see a couple videos on youtube that sound horrible, but thats typical of most
I used to own a TwinTone that was a really badass amp, clean and crunch were both fantastic, built in attenuator, and they go for cheap used

[Hammertone]

This one is a nice demo of the clean sound of the Jupiter 45 head/Koch 1x12" cab by Rory Ronde. He's playing a late '60s Hofner 4600, neck position (these typically have underwound humbucking pickups):

This one of the Jupiter 45 combo is nice as well - gets into some of the overdrive sounds without going nuts:

[wzpgsr]

This one is a nice demo of the clean sound of the Jupiter 45 head/Koch 1x12" cab by Rory Ronde. He's playing a late '60s Hofner 4600, neck position (these typically have underwound humbucking pickups):

I really dig the sound of that guitar. Is that a vintage Verythin?

[Gitfiddler]

Great amp demo videos by multiple competent players in this thread. Those would convince me to consider a Koch amp (if I were in the market). Most amp demos are way to overdriven to give any true representation of where I mostly play.

[Hammertone]

I really dig the sound of that guitar. Is that a vintage Verythin?

Not quite. The 4600 model has the 1.25" depth of the Verithin, is hollow like the Verithin, and uses the same hardware, pickups and so forth, but was conceived of as a less expensive, much easier to build guitar. It has a bolt-on neck and a body with no binding and innovative solid wood, rounded rims. It sounds and plays exactly like a Verithin. The original Verithin and related models were built from @1960 - 1970.

Between 1970 and now, Hofner has continued to offer several semis derived from the original Verithin. These have blocks connecting the top and back plates. They also made similar guitar models for Carvin.
In 2000, the Verythin (note the spelling) was re-introduced by Hofner with a solid spruce block and updated hardware as the Verythin Classic and the Verythin John Stowell. In @2002 Hofner introduced the Verythin Standard, with a stop tailpiece instead of a trapeze tailpiece.

Getting back to Koch, starting @2004, Hofner started borrowing Koch amps to use at NAMM. Several Hofner artists started using Koch amps, specifically Studiotone, Studiotone XL and Twintone combos, because they offered great clean, tube-driven sound, had decent spring reverb, and were quite compact, reasonably light and well-built. Koch is reasonably well-established in Europe and Japan. Unfortunately, North American distribution had problems, and they subsequently had difficulty delivering products due to supplier issues, so they were unable to grow the brand in North America. Most recently, these issues have subsided, the Greg amp has been an unqualified success, and they have a new North American distributor. OTOH, the Wuhan Virus hasn't been good for anyone, so we'll see if they can make a dent in North America.

[Mecena]

They should be amazing quality.
Koch reputation is good.

[Marcel_A]

Does anybody have any experience with the classic se 6?
Or the Jupiter 20 for that matter?

How do they hold up as an amp for home-use?

[Hammertone]

Marcel:
Check the earlier posts. I think either of them will hold up very well for home use. They are well-built amps. But they are very different amps from each other - the classic SE6 is a Class A tube amp with one main sound that can be played with, in an open-back cab, while the Jupiter 20 is a more powerful amp that is more of a chameleon and can provide a much wider range of tones, in a closed-back cab.

The other thing to note is that, in addition to recording outs, both have external speaker jacks (8 ohm only for the Jupiter 20, 4/8/16 ohm for the SE6), which allows for completely different sounds through different speaker cabs. No effects loop on the SE6.

I don't work for Koch, but I do like their gear, and I have worked at their booth at NAMM in the past, demo-ing their amps. And I used to borrow a small combo from them to use demo-ing the guitars at the Hofner booth at NAMM - always a very nice combination.

[Marcel_A]

Thanks. I owned a twintone years ago, so i’m familiair with the brand.

[Jim Soloway]

Somehow I seem to have missed this thread until today. The Jupiter Junior looks like a really handy little amp and very reasonbly priced.