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I made an amazing discovery tonight. I found out why Les Pauls are so uncomfortable to play.
It isn't primarily because they're too heavy, or because the body isn't sculpted (as I and most others I've talked with always thought). Those two things contribute a little to the discomfort, but aren't the main reason.
It's because they don't have a top "horn" on the body. Hard to believe? You can easily see for yourself.
Tie a trustworthy long shoestring around the headstock, where you'd attach an acoustic guitar strap. run the long end through the (neck-side) hole in your regular guitar strap. Then tie the shoestring firmly to the (neck side) strap button. You now have a dynamically balance-adjustable guitar strap.
In a standing position, with the strap end about 3 or 4 inches out along the shoestring from the strap button, the Les Paul will feel like an entirely different guitar.
No neck dive. No body dive. No rib-gouging. It feels lighter. It's in a *much* better playing position. I could swear it even sounds better.
You can't really leave it that way, because the shoestring interferes with your hand close to the nut. But it explains exactly why Les Pauls just "feel wrong" to many people. The neck-side strap button needs to be about 3 or 4 inches to the left.
I don't know what a good "fix" would consist of, but it seems like some bright young luthier could come up with a modification or accessory to solve the problem.
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06-02-2019 12:41 AM
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Here’s what someone came up with for a Telecaster. Of course this will only work on a bolt-on neck.
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Perfect fix for a Tele. Bolt-on necks make life so much easier. Thanks for showing that. I had no idea it was available.
A similar fix for an LP might involve modifications most people would be hesitant to make. Another approach would be a headstock-to-strapbutton "shoestring" that somehow keeps the shoestring away from the neck at the nut/1st fret.
The thing that impressed me is that the new playing position, balance, and overall feel aren't just "a little better" or "some improvement." It seems like an entirely different, perfectly positioned guitar. Both hands go naturally to ideal positions, and the it's very stable. The pressure on the neck at the headstock end seems to have little or no effect on tuning, at least on my 50s baseball bat style neck.
I'm thinking maybe a stiff leather piece around the headstock, with a line to the strap button, but stiff enough to keep the line away from the neck. The line could have its own movable strap button, and you could attach your regulat strap to it normally.
At any rate, I'm going to find some way to do this, because the difference in feel and playability is nothing short of astounding. I could never be satisfied with the old position now.
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I tried the headstock strap method and didn't really find it to be much better than the standard top-bout body anchor. Maybe it's just me, it seemed to shift the weight such that it would slide body first toward the ground unless I gripped it with my entire forearm. Plus there was extra strain on my neck. Maybe I was doing it wrong. I've since sold my lp.
I bet the original strap screw could (relatively) easily be replaced with something longer
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Maybe not the desired length, but it exists.
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Exactly. Using a standard acoustic guitar strap doesn't work at all. As you said, the LP body gravitates directly to the floor. That's why the weight-bearing end of your regular guitar strap needs to be positioned just a few inches to the left of the strap button, not all the way down at the headstock.
Yep, the thought of a strap button extension crossed my mind, too. But it seems like it would become a lever that could strip the screw hole, or even crack the body. Unless you drilled a very long hole into the body. And I'd like to avoid any permanent mods.
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Ahhh. I hadn't correctly conceptualized what you were describing. My bad.
Originally Posted by strumcat
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There's a well known, simple solution to the problems of Les Paul ergonomics: buy a PRS instead. An alternative, somewhat less direct solution: buy a 335 (or clone).
JohnLast edited by John A.; 06-03-2019 at 11:46 AM.
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How about tying it behind the A&B tuners? Would that get it out of the way?
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The ergonomics of the LP, Tele, SG and more don't seem ideal.
Is it despite those disadvantages or because of them all three of these guys are just amazing?
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I have a G&L Tribute Fallout that I have not been using. I love the sound of it, but just gave up on it because I could not handle the neck dive.
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For eons the strap went on the headstock, and players dealt with it. I have it that way on my Wu. I bought a strap designed to fit over an endpin jack, and it wouldn't fit the strap pin on the back, near the neck join. That requires the strap to go onto the pin 'backwards', and there was no way to to that without twisting the strap. But the strap also came with an attachment to go around the peghead. I don't like it a lot attached just behind the nut, but when I put it around the peghead between the tuners it works well. It takes a few minutes to get used to the new position, but now I prefer it to the modern standard strap pins. There is more versatility in playing position, and the guitar does seem to feel lighter, although it's under 5 pounds in mass. With the string around the peghead, as you see in older videos with many guitar players, including Wes Montgomery, it doesn't interfere with my left hand at all.
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No affiliation or experience with, just remember seeing them,
Sidewinder Straps – Sidewinder Guitar Straps
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Or just get better Les Pauls. Originally Posted by John A.
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I find my weight relieved Lester quite comfortable. those who don't need to find a guitar that is comfortable to them. There are plenty of other choices out there.
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That was a winner! Thank you very much. To clarify, I tied it between the A&B tuners and the E&E tuners. Then threaded it through the strap hole. Then tied the other end firmly to the strap button, with no slack. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
The strap slides along the shoestring freely and finds its own natural balance point. The LP hangs in a perfect playing position. You don't have to touch it with anything but your fingers. There's no interference to the left hand.
Total parts: 1 shoestring
Total labor: 10 minutes
Total damage to guitar: 0
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I’ve used a Planet Waves Quick Release headstock strap on two Eastmans for years, positioned just beyond the 1st string tuner. The playing position and balance seems good and my left hand is unconstrained when playing. The connector is very secure. It touches the strings, but doesn’t affect tuning. If it did, I could run the strap under rhe strings instead of over.
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I find my Les Paul Recording fairly comfortable to play. It has tummy cut which helps a bit with ergonomics.
It's heavy, would be about 9lbs (although that is very light for a Recording model).
I haven't tried strapping it from the headstock, but I'll give it a go and see how it changes the feel.
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Entresz: Most people use the strap button, a few use the headstock. What I find far better is to tie a taut shoestring between the headstock and the strap button. Then I clip my strap to the shoestring. It moves freely along the shoestring and finds the best balance no matter if you stand, sit, or lie down. Works perfectly so far and I'm loving it.
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Wes strapped his guitar on the headstock. Every pic I've seen is pretty much this way. I've emulated this on my Ibanez and I couldn't be happier. It balances perfectly.
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No neck dive. No body dive. No rib-gouging.
I've had 5 or 6 Les Pauls (currently own a '73 Recording, '85 Custom Shop, 88 Standard) and never experienced any of these things. I play a lot of four hour gigs and don't have a problem with the weight.
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The few times I've played with the strap attached at the headstock it felt very very good. (On other guitars, no experience with a LP.) And much less stress on the neck/shoulder. This thread has inspired me to revisit it.
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Agreed. The title could have been WAY better stated. Originally Posted by LtKojak
This thread starts with a Blanket Statement, continues with a completely False Premise and ended passing Personal Opinion as Fact.
Complete and absolute thread FAIL. Hogrider16 got it right!
Nice try, though. Even got several people going!
With age, a 10-11 pound guitar no longer works for me, but for others it is no problem. It was never a problem for me in my 20's through my 50's. My current sub 8 pound Lester is as comfortable as any guitar I have ever had. I have never had any neck dive or rib gouging with any Lester either. And including my current Lester, I have owned 6 Gibson Les Pauls and an Epiphone Les Paul. Superb guitars, all.
Stating opinion as fact is not a good way to win friends or influence people. That said, a hearty congrats to the OP for finding a way to make a Lester work for him. And if his experience is a help to others, all the better.
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Can that function as a wireless receiver, too? Originally Posted by arielcee
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I think most of the tuning issues that people on Youtube complain about re. Les Pauls comes from the fact Gibson often don't do a great job setting up their guitars.... usually the nuts are poorly cut resulting in issues with tuning stability.
Mind you most of the 'youtube experts' that do all the whinging and moaning are often less than stellar musicians... any issue with the guitar is really the least of their concerns!!
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