The rise of telecasters and stratocasters in jazz

[Average Joe]

Is it down to economy, practicality or aesthetic? I've always assumed that the increasing use in the last couple of decades of Fender style guitars, especially teles but also strats, was down to aesthetic choice: I assumed that the younger players in particular were going for that kind of sound, influenced by Frisell, Bro, etc. Besides, a tele or strat is virtually indistructible, which I'm sure is practical for the touring musician. Then I read in one of the Gibson threads, that they, and other archtop makers may have priced themselves out of the market for a lot of working musicians. I'd never considered the economic angle, which may mean that I'm slow on the uptake.

So, to what extend do ýou think the upshot in use of Fender style instruments is down to aesthetic choice and how much of it is down to economic forces? If a tele and L-5 cost the same (I wish) would the latter reign supreme, or are people simply going for different sounds these days.

[guavajelly]

Practical reasons. I used to use a solid carved archtop and always had trouble with feedback howls. Switched to a telecaster and called it a day. Lately I'm getting into archtops again though – laminated this time.

[dlew919]

I think players like mike stern Bill frisell, Tim Lerch showed that the far more versatile pickups could be used in jazz. It’s also cheaper to get a decent arrat or Tele thanan archtop and the technical issues such as less feedback.also help.

Which I guess is what you said but I think you’re right.


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[Litterick]

The concurrent rise of the pedalboard might be a factor. Frisell plays many guitars and steps on many pedals, as do many others. A big old expensive archtop is perhaps not much of an advantage when its signal is being modified by a host of pedals.

[marcwhy]

Is it down to economy, practicality or aesthetic? ...
So, to what extend do ýou think the upshot in use of Fender style instruments is down to aesthetic choice and how much of it is down to economic forces? If a tele and L-5 cost the same (I wish) would the latter reign supreme, or are people simply going for different sounds these days.

"It depends."

F-style guitars (from Esquire to boutique builders) range from $300 - 7,000+, and archtops from $300 - 20,000 (and beyond) USD. In both markets, you can get something nice and giggable at the $1000 range, and very nice at the +/- $3000 range, so the economics are a minor consideration for a player, IMO. Take a look at the very long "tele" thread at the top of this "Guitar/amp" section -- it's definitely a sexy instrument that people like, and there are countless examples of its versatility, including getting a "jazz" sound that's pleasant to the ears.

Besides archtops (and many jazz guitarists!) being "traditional," I think ultimately it comes down to personal taste -- "What do you like?"

[JGinNJ]

I couldn't say if more contemporary players are choosing solidbodies. I would guess that's true for less traditional styles, people that aren't trying to sound like Wes.

I've done a bunch of recording lately with my laminate archtops, and cheap Tele copy, just solo, with same tune, same amp & settings. The comparisions are remarkably similar, but the archtop sounds a little more acoustic, partly because the mic was picking up the guitar as well as the amp. Playing with a group at higher volume, that would disappear.

With that in mind, I've shopped a bunch of Tele's and Jazzmasters lately, mexican, US, cheaper ones and top of range. They don't all sound good for jazz, sometimes the cheap copies like mine sound better!

Playability is another issue. A lot of the new Fenders have tall, jumbo frets, that you don't see on archtops, and I don't like, not to mention the different necks shapes.

I think I'm going to pull the trigger on an Original 60's Jazzmaster. not only does it have the sound, but it's very comfortable with the offset body and bound neck. But it's $2,000, more expensive than most laminate Asian-made archtops, but still cheaper than than a "good" US archtop.

[drbhrb]

I think the huge uptick in teles the past few years has been because of Julian Lage. No, he was nowhere near the first one to do it but I think a lot of young players look up to him.

[TedBPhx]

We have tickets to see Bill Frisell AND Julian Lage perform together at the MiM here in Phoenix December 15. I foresee a Tele for Christmas.

[mr. beaumont]

I think the huge uptick in teles the past few years has been because of Julian Lage. No, he was nowhere near the first one to do it but I think a lot of young players look up to him.

I feel like teles have been pretty popular with jazzers for a bit longer back...or maybe that's just because I've been playing one for years.

Frisell would certainly be an influence here, or anyone into Bickert. Of course, I starting playing a tele for jazz because I was already playing a tele when I got into jazz

[voxsss]

Any recommendations for a cheap tele..stock pickup? .still keeping the monarch

[drbhrb]

I feel like teles have been pretty popular with jazzers for a bit longer back...or maybe that's just because I've been playing one for years.

Frisell would certainly be an influence here, or anyone into Bickert. Of course, I starting playing a tele for jazz because I was already playing a tele when I got into jazz

For sure. But 10 years ago I don't think half of the guitarists at jam sessions were showing up with Teles. Then Arclight came out, and suddenly they were everywhere (at least in my area)

[Tatayoyo]

A Lollar Charlie Christian on a Telecaster is an excellent idea I think. I don't remember who does a demo but it was great sounding.

[jads57]

It used to be Jazz Guitarists never cared that much about gear at all. Tools were just that so long as they did the job and were of high quality.
Gibson ES-175 was an inexpensive alter alternative to to the carved tops Gibson were famous for.
It became the sonic signature for most Jazz Guitarists. And being on so many recordings influenced younger players as well

Most L.A. recording guitarists back in the 1950's and 1960s had both a Tele and a 175 to cover anything they might encounter.From Jazz,Pop,to Rock and Roll.
Bob Bain (Peter Gunn) had a humbucker in the neck position of an old Tele and a Bigsby. That way it would cover almost anything.

[Doug B]

A Lollar Charlie Christian on a Telecaster is an excellent idea I think. I don't remember who does a demo but it was great sounding.

Tim Lerch for one.

[Tatayoyo]

Yes, Tim Lerch.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Playability is another issue. A lot of the new Fenders have tall, jumbo frets, that you don't see on archtops, and I don't like, not to mention the different necks shapes.

+1.

This is actually another advantage to Teles. There are lots of aftermarket suppliers, like Warmoth, that sell custom necks.

Want one with an ebony fretboard, block inlay, 1 3/4" nut, fat contour, 12" radius, and vintage-size stainless steel frets? No problem. Then hold on to the old neck if you ever want to resell.

[Doug B]

Once, a long time ago, way before Julian Lage, a player named Ed Bickert was one of the first to use a Tele to play jazz. Because he stayed in Toronto, he wasn't that well known. Now a days, another Torontonian, Lorne Lofesky carrys on the tradition by using an Ibanez Strat style guitar (as well as a Fender Strat) and fingerpicking.

Listen to both of them on Youtube and tell me they don't get a really nice jazz tone. BTW-Lofesky even played with Oscar Peterson-hardly an avante guardist!

ed bickert - YouTube

lorne lofsky - YouTube


Doug

[drbhrb]

Ed Bickert is the best. "Pure Desmond" might be my favorite recorded jazz guitar playing

[WILSON 1]

It used to be Jazz Guitarists never cared that much about gear at all.

Not too sure about that one..jads57.

Have to admit I've been a guitar snob for far too long. I wouldn't even look (read listen) at a guy with a sold body...figured he was going for another sound.

So the L-4 recently has started to become a kind of "truck". I can't play the action, call it A-G-E, won't take lighter gage strings and I'm tempted to do things to it but I'm not screwing with a $3,000 vintage instrument, besides you can't "get under the hood".

So I've defaulted to the noodling on the junkyard dog strat ($75 at a garage sale) and oddly enough my local luthier says he can bring it around with flat wounds pickups etc.

So after hearing that vid above and watching Chris at Things From Barry Harris with his arsenal..I've got new life.

[D.G.]

Any recommendations for a cheap tele..stock pickup? .still keeping the monarch

My current fav Tele neck pup for jazz is the Fender Tex-Mex. Roll the volume and/or tone down a touch to remove a bit of the highest frequencies and you're set

Also of note is the older ceramic Tele pups. They're built like a p90, 2 magnets on the bottom and steel poles. For more coin and a much more refined sound -- as well as more coin! -- the Fralin Steel Pole tele pups are pretty magnificent.

[neatomic]

tim lerchs mentor the great ted greene..many years ago

all the jazz guys that turned to sessions like bob bain, tommy tedesco, barney kessel etc..used teles back in the early 60's

lots of the 70's nyc fusion players as well

teles have been around jazz for decades..nothin new


cheers

[Tatayoyo]

No ebony fretboard, no "perloid crown head insert", no 8 1/2 body, no "volute", no floating bridge, no enormous gold plated imperial tuners, no sunken top !!!
Is telecaster really a guitar ??

[Stringswinger]

Western Swing was/is a genre of jazz played by musicians from the rural Southwest. Leo Fender invented the Telecaster and Stratocaster for those guys, so both of those guitars started out as jazz guitars and it is good to see mainstream jazz guitarists coming around to their utility in bigger numbers today.

The Les Paul was also invented for jazz.

I have used both a Les Paul and a Stratocaster (with flatwounds) as jazz guitars for over 40 years. While I prefer the tone of an archtop ( a bit of acoustic "crunch" goes a long way when playing old school 4 to the bar rhythm), I appreciate the utility of the solid body guitars.

[John A.]

Is it down to economy, practicality or aesthetic? I've always assumed that the increasing use in the last couple of decades of Fender style guitars, especially teles but also strats, was down to aesthetic choice: I assumed that the younger players in particular were going for that kind of sound, influenced by Frisell, Bro, etc. Besides, a tele or strat is virtually indistructible, which I'm sure is practical for the touring musician. Then I read in one of the Gibson threads, that they, and other archtop makers may have priced themselves out of the market for a lot of working musicians. I'd never considered the economic angle, which may mean that I'm slow on the uptake.

So, to what extend do ýou think the upshot in use of Fender style instruments is down to aesthetic choice and how much of it is down to economic forces? If a tele and L-5 cost the same (I wish) would the latter reign supreme, or are people simply going for different sounds these days.

Gibson may have priced themselves out of the market for a lot of people, but the archtop business as a whole is remarkably affordable. There are so many really good guitars on the market from brands like Ibanez, Godin, Epiphone, Eastman, etc., at a small fraction of the cost of a Gibson that I don't think people are buying Strats and Teles because they're locked out of the archtop market. Among the players I know, there's a little bit of everything based on individual needs and preferences, and that has been the case for as long as I can remember.

John

[Danny W.]

Me, 1967:



Sometimes you have to play what you have with you.

Danny W.