The Average Guitarist will spend 10K on gear over a lifetime

[grahambop]

I don’t think I’ve spent more than £3,000 on guitars, amps, pedals, recording gear, however I have not changed my gear much or bought any really fancy stuff, and I only have one ‘expensive’ guitar (Gibson 175).

Also I only paid £400 for it.

But that was in 1982!

[Jazzstdnt]

Yeah, the study was probably calculated in today's dollars.

[joe2758]

When I first started my dad (who does not play guitar at all), told me he heard a guitar will keep you satisfied for 1 year per $100 dollars you spend. Now that I have experience, I think it is actually a fair estimate (if you had to estimate for some reason).

[Gabor]

If this bothers you, then make sure you never have kids:

Cost of raising a child - Wikipedia

Wow, now I am wondering what kind of gear is included in this amount?

[grahambop]

Wow, now I am wondering what kind of gear is included in this amount?

The L5 of the baby world:

[MarkRhodes]

Anyhow, my point here is that after one has one nice acoustic and one nice electric and an amp, I recommend one invest in ways to make playing alone a more fruitful and enjoyable experience than another guitar,,,, for most guitar hobbies, one ends up playing ALONE, 99% of the time.

I think that's a great point. Certainly true for me, but not just me. Even guys I know who do play with others regularly aren't doing that every day, maybe not even once a week.

When I was a kid I did something I didn't think much about at the time but in retrospect changed my life: I started writing songs. I had trouble picking out songs from the radio. So I thought, "I'll make my own." So that way I had songs to play that I could sing. Mind you, these songs sucked and my singing was worse. But it kept me going. Later I would get a 4-track, a drum machine, and make demos. They weren't thrilling either but again, they kept me going. And I still play a few of those old songs to this day. They're pretty much designed to sound passable w/ just one guitar and a voice. (Evidently I'm one of those loner a**holes...)

I like Aebersold play-alongs too. (Not wild about iRealPro. I have it and use it some but I don't like the feel of the tracks.) I have BIAB but rarely use it. Not sure why. Maybe next year...

But yes, I think you're right. For most players, something that allows you to play a song when alone but have other instruments going (at least bass and drums) can be very satisfying. Especially if you can adjust the tempo. (This is a big plus for iRealPro and BIAB.) You can start "slower than the record" and build up gradually.

It's also good to have recording equipment, however humble. If you record yourself, you can tell where you're at. You can listen back to something from, say, six months ago and realize, "Hey, I do that much better now." That can be enough to keep one going.

Keeping onself going is, to my mind, the main thing.

[MarkRhodes]

Fender is using this for marketing and thus they adjusted the research to meet their needs. Yea, I'm cynical.

I see it the other way around. They're trying to make money and looking at the best place to find it. This interview (w Fender CEO Andy Mooney) was linked in the OP. There is a market for those who start playing guitar but give up out of frustration or boredom within the first year. And Fender is making a lot out of your idea: giving people a way to play-along with recordings of songs they want to learn. (For many, these would be rock and pop songs, not jazz.) That's the idea behind the FenderSongs app, a subscription service that teaches one to play songs.

Fender CEO Andy Mooney on why Fender Songs will change the way we learn guitar - Guitar.com | All Things Guitar

My sense is that this is how Fender looks at it: if we can keep more people playing, get them into years two through five, say, then they'll probably buy more gear. If they stay for the long haul, they're sure to buy more gear. (They also want to build brand loyalty.)

They're also getting into "guitar lesson money" territory. If you subscribe to the service for $5 a month and learn the songs you want to play that way, plus have backing tracks you can adjust the tempo and pitch of, you may not pay a local teacher $30 per half-hour to show you how to play scales and whatnot. (No knock on teachers is intended here.)

This is what they have committed to. We'll see how it all pans out.

[Dennis D]

If this bothers you, then make sure you never have kids:

Cost of raising a child - Wikipedia

Of course, I was lucky enough to always have been employed and always pay taxes and never had children.

You're welcome.

[starjasmine]

Hmmm. Your last sentence is giving me some ideas. These are probably questions for my accountant but what the heck:

1. Is that true for teachers too?
2. Is there a minimum revenue amount that a person has to bring in as a pro or teacher?
3. Can one deduct gear purchased before they become a pro or teacher?
4. Does pro player or teacher have to be your sole or primary job?

I think you can see where I'm headed here...

I had this talk with my accountant years ago. I was self-employed for over 20 years both in the music business and as a consultant for another industry. For most of that time I ran two businesses (music and other) as a sole proprietor. I filed one set of tax returns with multiple sources of income, and I itemized all my deductions for both businesses. Your country (and in the US your state and local taxation laws/authorities) affect this, but here's what I know for California residents. I am NOT a tax pro, so check with your OWN tax pro for definitive answers to any questions the following might raise.

1) Is that true for teachers too?

Yes. As long as it's a real business with a profit motive, you can write off expenses against income. If you are someone's employee it's not the same as running your own business. In that situation, you ask your employer to reimburse your expenses, just as if you were a salesman for Fender who takes a business trip to NAMM. Exception: all California middle-school teachers (art, political science, whatever) can deduct some amount of out-of-pocket expenses for classroom supplies on their state tax form; e.g. crayons, construction paper, whatever. IDK the details in detail, as they don't apply to me but it's a new law that passed recently. I'm sure you can find out more on the interwebs.


2) Is there a minimum revenue amount that a person has to bring in as a pro or teacher?

Basically, you have to make enough to pay taxes. That could be in conjunction with another job. If you meet the requirements to file a return, then there is no minimum amount that a particular job or business on that return has to bring in, but in general you can't deduct more than you earn. This can get a bit tricky, because it is possible for a valid business to have startup costs that exceed revenues, and it's possible for an established business to have a down year where they take a loss instead of make a profit. Here's where you really need the expert opinion of an accountant who is licensed in your locale and knows those rules definitively.

3) Can one deduct gear purchased before they become a pro or teacher?
Yes and no. There's a way to amortize the cost of gear over time, say an amp you bought a year before you went into business playing gigs or teaching lessons with that amp, and something you bought ten years beforehand might be trickier, but not impossible. The downside to doing this is that you effectively declare equipment worthless after it has been fully depreciated against your income. And using gear for business means that it is NOT covered by your homeowners' policy or your auto policy. So if your axe gets stolen from your trunk and you have not insured it specifically with a separate business policy or musical instrument policy, you are pretty much SOL for collecting any reimbursement from your insurer. Musical instrument policies are hella expensive, especially for expensive gear. You got a Steinway D in your living room that you play for fun? That might be worth insuring on a special instrument policy, and it's definitely worth finding out whether your homeowners policy excludes musical instruments that are non-business personal property. Generally the cost of a policy on a nice guitar will cost you the value of the guitar itself long before the guitar ceases to exist. So just take good care of your guitars and don't take chances with them.


4)Does pro player or teacher have to be your sole or primary job?
No. You can, for example, be a W2 employee of the Sticky Wicket Corporation and teach/gig on the side as a 1099 self-employed individual. As long as you are treating it like a real business, especially if you make enough profit to pay taxes on the income from that business, you can write off picks, strings, guitars, tubes, lessons, pencils, papers, you name it... and by "treating it like a real business" I mean that it meets the majority of the Federal tests for a valid self-employment situation, including making your services available to the general public, actively seeking new business, advertising, keeping records of income and expenses, having appropriate licenses (you don't need a license to teach guitar but having a business license will legitimize your business a bit more), being financially responsible for the success or failure of the business (i.e. you get paid on milestone/per lesson/per gig, not just for showing up), and a bunch of others I don't recall off the top. You can look that up online too. Basically, the bottom line is that your attempts to operate as a business and itemize your expenses need to stand up to an IRS or state (or both) audit.


HTH

SJ

[Jazzstdnt]

I had this talk with my accountant years ago. I was self-employed for over 20 years both in the music business and as a consultant for another industry. For most of that time I ran two businesses (music and other) as a sole proprietor. I filed one set of tax returns with multiple sources of income, and I itemized all my deductions for both businesses. Your country (and in the US your state and local taxation laws/authorities) affect this, but here's what I know for California residents. I am NOT a tax pro, so check with your OWN tax pro for definitive answers to any questions the following might raise.

1) Is that true for teachers too?

Yes. As long as it's a real business with a profit motive, you can write off expenses against income. If you are someone's employee it's not the same as running your own business. In that situation, you ask your employer to reimburse your expenses, just as if you were a salesman for Fender who takes a business trip to NAMM. Exception: all California middle-school teachers (art, political science, whatever) can deduct some amount of out-of-pocket expenses for classroom supplies on their state tax form; e.g. crayons, construction paper, whatever. IDK the details in detail, as they don't apply to me but it's a new law that passed recently. I'm sure you can find out more on the interwebs.


2) Is there a minimum revenue amount that a person has to bring in as a pro or teacher?

Basically, you have to make enough to pay taxes. That could be in conjunction with another job. If you meet the requirements to file a return, then there is no minimum amount that a particular job or business on that return has to bring in, but in general you can't deduct more than you earn. This can get a bit tricky, because it is possible for a valid business to have startup costs that exceed revenues, and it's possible for an established business to have a down year where they take a loss instead of make a profit. Here's where you really need the expert opinion of an accountant who is licensed in your locale and knows those rules definitively.

3) Can one deduct gear purchased before they become a pro or teacher?
Yes and no. There's a way to amortize the cost of gear over time, say an amp you bought a year before you went into business playing gigs or teaching lessons with that amp, and something you bought ten years beforehand might be trickier, but not impossible. The downside to doing this is that you effectively declare equipment worthless after it has been fully depreciated against your income. And using gear for business means that it is NOT covered by your homeowners' policy or your auto policy. So if your axe gets stolen from your trunk and you have not insured it specifically with a separate business policy or musical instrument policy, you are pretty much SOL for collecting any reimbursement from your insurer. Musical instrument policies are hella expensive, especially for expensive gear. You got a Steinway D in your living room that you play for fun? That might be worth insuring on a special instrument policy, and it's definitely worth finding out whether your homeowners policy excludes musical instruments that are non-business personal property. Generally the cost of a policy on a nice guitar will cost you the value of the guitar itself long before the guitar ceases to exist. So just take good care of your guitars and don't take chances with them.


4)Does pro player or teacher have to be your sole or primary job?
No. You can, for example, be a W2 employee of the Sticky Wicket Corporation and teach/gig on the side as a 1099 self-employed individual. As long as you are treating it like a real business, especially if you make enough profit to pay taxes on the income from that business, you can write off picks, strings, guitars, tubes, lessons, pencils, papers, you name it... and by "treating it like a real business" I mean that it meets the majority of the Federal tests for a valid self-employment situation, including making your services available to the general public, actively seeking new business, advertising, keeping records of income and expenses, having appropriate licenses (you don't need a license to teach guitar but having a business license will legitimize your business a bit more), being financially responsible for the success or failure of the business (i.e. you get paid on milestone/per lesson/per gig, not just for showing up), and a bunch of others I don't recall off the top. You can look that up online too. Basically, the bottom line is that your attempts to operate as a business and itemize your expenses need to stand up to an IRS or state (or both) audit.


HTH

SJ

Thanks!

[Aniz]

Wow, now I am wondering what kind of gear is included in this amount?

Well, including a case would be a tad morbid now, wouldn't it? And guesswork, as you don't know their height when you finally need it.

[JGinNJ]

Even with factoring out the people who buy one cheap guitar and soon quit, 10K seems a bit high, especially for Fender products. Even buying one of their higher end guitars ($2K) and amp ($1.5K), you'd have to do that 3 times over, without trading-in or selling off old gear. I guess the guitar hoarders and collectors skew the numbers.

Or maybe not. I did a quick tally of as many of the guitars and amps I've bought over 40+ years that I could remember, and I got to $8900. But a third of that is the archtop I bought last month!

[Gabor]

Just a general thought to all, are you ensured your family has no access to this forum, aren’t you?

[dickbanks]

The average guitarist will spend $10,000 on gear over their lifetime - Guitar.com | All Things Guitar

Playing-wise, I'm well below average. Dollar-wise, I'm Eric Clapton.

[marcwhy]

Classical guitarists have it tougher than most of us, and then there are other strings, too.

[Gabor]

Many posts say this amount is too much, I mean overestimated...

I think it is not, because it is about lifetime and small things are adding up. Take just the strings, for two guitars, for $10 per set... it is yearly $50-$100, that is $2500 - $5000 for 50 years.

[savofenno]

The average guitarist will spend $10,000 on gear over their lifetime - Guitar.com | All Things Guitar


>>>How much have you spent on guitar gear in your life? It’s the last thing that many of us would want to think about, but according to Fender CEO Andy Mooney, the average guitar player will spend around $10,000 on gear in their lifetime, provided that they keep playing after their first year.<<<

That 'first year' hurdle is big. Most people who start playing guitar never clear it.

My spending on guitars is about 70000 translated to US money.
I have lived my 26 first years in Finland and thereafter in Sweden, i write this because guitars are 15%
more expensive here in Northern Europe than in USA.

I add my biggest spending was during 80`s and in years around 2005.
One more: i have no illusions of myself as a guitarist.