Benedetto Fratello / Manhattan - What is the Difference?

[wengr]

Hello. Concerning Bob built guitars of the Stroudsburg era, what are the standard differences of these two models?

[fws6]

Fratello is more the classic gibsonesque look (inlays in fretboard, rounded guard etc)
Manhattan is more the modern daquisto look (no inlays, streamlined guard etc)

Under the hood they are the same (fantasic) guitar

Fratellos cost the same as Manhattan but used they show up a bit lesser in price. The Leo Kottke one on Reverb is nice !

[wengr]

Thanks. I was wondering if there are differences that cannot be seen. Personally I love the guitars with no inlays.

[deacon Mark]

Thanks. I was wondering if there are differences that cannot be seen. Personally I love the guitars with no inlays.

I am the opposite. I don't like tree-of-life inlay or overdone artwork, but I still want nice block inlay or split-block like a super 400. I don't like dots at all worse than no inlay unless it happens to be a 335.

[SierraTango]

Hello. Concerning Bob built guitars of the Stroudsburg era, what are the standard differences of these two models?

If you have not already done so, Bob's book "Making an Archtop Guitar" is a excellent reference tool. There are some fine color plates of the different models he was offering around the time the book came out (1994 ish) that also give specs. In addition, there is a listing of serial/build numbers and who the instrument was originally built for, private order or music store.

When I was on my quest, I really didn't care which model I obtained-it just so happened that I ended up with the Flagship. My criteria a instrument from 1988-1995, which in my experience was a golden time for him. As I have posted, my 1990 Cremona is my working guitar.

[wengr]

I am aware of a 1998 which is being offered. Why would you prefer 88 - 95 over a 98?

[SierraTango]

Just personal preference. Speaking with him. Playing as many as I could-not a easy task.

If you bond with the 98-go for it!

[wengr]

Ok Thanks. I have no way to try the 98, and the price imo is unrealistic, but I'll be keeping an eye on it.

[sgosnell]

Whether or not you think it's unrealistic, they do sell for serious money, seldom below $10k. The price of a new one is even higher, built by the current shop, not Bob. If you're looking for a budget guitar, a Benedetto is not that.

[wengr]

Whether or not you think it's unrealistic, they do sell for serious money, seldom below $10k. The price of a new one is even higher, built by the current shop, not Bob. If you're looking for a budget guitar, a Benedetto is not that.

Well of course it's not a budget guitar. However I cannot recall a single Bob build listed on reverb in the last year or so that was not reduced by thousands before it transacted or the listing was pulled. Many have been reduced by thousands and remain unsold.
The reverb model of there being zero up front advertising costs drives unrealistic pricing. At least initially.

[SierraTango]

Well of course it's not a budget guitar. However I cannot recall a single Bob build listed on reverb in the last year or so that was not reduced by thousands before it transacted or the listing was pulled. Many have been reduced by thousands and remain unsold.
The reverb model of there being zero up front advertising costs drives unrealistic pricing. At least initially.

The thing I find amusing about these kind of threads is this; they start out as someone asking a legitimate question about a Bob built guitar. There are a few owners of these instruments on the forum and they answer to the best of their ability.

It doesn't take too many replies for the "they are overpriced" " I've played better archtops for 1/10th of the price" "they are owned by rich collectors who don't know how to play" responses to start piling in. And also, of course, somebody has to offer their opinion that a L-5 is a superior instrument.

My view is this-each guitar should ideally be judged on it's own merits. If it touches your heart and lets you express the music you hear in your head, brings joy to you and the listener, then you have found your voice.

As for me-no amount of money would make me part ways with my Benedetto Cremona. And I am by no means wealthy.

Best of luck on your quest.

[sgosnell]

I was not implying that they're over-priced. Just saying that the models mentioned tend to sell for a great deal of money. I acquired one of Bob's early guitars, built in 1978, for an unreasonably low sum, solely as an investment, and it sold on archtop.com for north of $13k. People don't tend to buy really high-end guitars via Reverb, AFAIK. If you want those, archtop.com is a good place to look. But don't look for bargains, they go for full value.

[oldane]

I have a 1997 Fratello. For all I know the Fratellos and the Manhattans are the same guitars apart from the cosmetics - or at least was in this vintage.

As for the price, the right price is the price the market will bear.

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[wengr]

I was not implying that they're over-priced. Just saying that the models mentioned tend to sell for a great deal of money. I acquired one of Bob's early guitars, built in 1978, for an unreasonably low sum, solely as an investment, and it sold on archtop.com for north of $13k. People don't tend to buy really high-end guitars via Reverb, AFAIK. If you want those, archtop.com is a good place to look. But don't look for bargains, they go for full value.

There is no such thing as full value. It's value is what someone is willing to pay. Also Archtop.com has no Bob builds available, and at the moment actually zero Benedetto branded guitars at all.
Reverb on the other hand shows over fifty, with six or seven being actual Bob builds.
People advertise everything on reverb. It's simply a site for private individuals and vendors(like achtop.com) to get more views.

[wengr]

I have a 1997 Fratello. For all I know the Fratellos and the Manhattans are the same guitars apart from the cosmetics - or at least was in this vintage.

There does seem to be a lot of variation. You can find Manhattans with fretboard inlays, or with the Fratello style pick gaurd etc.