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Until today, I thought a "JS-style pickup" just meant a floating mini humbucker... I did not know the mini-humbucker is literally a mini PAF, whereas the JS pickup is a hybrid of a PAFmini and Firebird pickup....
I wonder what the differences in tone would be?
Humbuckers and Mini-Humbuckers
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04-11-2020 08:14 AM
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That was a really interesting read; thanks for posting that. Always interesting to hear the perspective of someone like Jason Lollar, after all of their years of making pickups.
What I've gathered from reading some of Bill Lawrence's writings is that, and this is probably a minor quibble, the pickup does not actually hear the string vibrating in the magnetic field. Instead, the magnetic field magnetizes the string and the coil has voltage and frequency induced within it by the movement of the magnetized string above it- basically a low power alternator. To generate current, a magnet can move inside or near a coil, or the coil can move inside or near the magnet. Electric motors tend to be a coils moving inside the magnet.
As I understand it, the magnetic field itself, from the perspective of the pickup, is static and producing no sound. Indeed, Lawrence disputed the idea that different kinds of magnets necessarily sound different, at least from what I gathered from what I read, since all it actually does is magnetize the string. He indicated one can make a sweet warm ceramic based pickup or a hard, bright alnico one. The magnet is only one component of the sound.
EDIT: tutorial on magnetic circuits:
Guitar Pickup - MagLabLast edited by Cunamara; 04-12-2020 at 05:21 PM.
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Interesting. I always thought the Firebird had the potential for jazz - not too far from a JS.
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A 1973 LP DeLuxe was my #1 for twelve years. I loved the pickups in it -- they were very versatile and that guitar could do most anything electric guitars do except Tele spank. The middle position could even (with some subtle and judicious chorusing) get near to Strat 2&4 quack.
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Hahaaa. Good one Rob.
Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
JD
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here's the inside of a firebird pickup
it has 2 coils of wire wrapped around blades with a single magnet below both coils...
(tho apprently the original firebird mini hums just used two blade magnets...one one in each coil...not blade slugs with magnet below)
mini hum uses polepieces with magnet below bobbin
js pup combines the 2! one coil is a bar magnet and the other is a screw slug coil
^ pic from-Dissecting more Firebird pickups (pic heavy) | My Les Paul Forum
cheersLast edited by neatomic; 04-13-2020 at 07:26 PM. Reason: add-
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My number one has regular dumb old gibson minis. More recent ones, not the vintage ones, that may or may not be problematic.
Still extremely pleased. They keep surprising me after all this time. Not sure they could exist in a floating format.
Also wonder where the hofner minis fall on this spectrum, since I believe they are their own thing. Maybe the guild ones, too.
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hofner german mini-hums are great...have the woody hollowness of a fender single coil with tone rolled back...but dead quiet...and have some of that p-90 midrange grit..(but again with no noise..humbucking!)...when pushed
wonderful pups
cheers
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They sound great on the Verythin Stowell and Classic.
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Interesting, that contradicts the article by Lollar, which indicates that the blades themselves are the magnets. The MLP thread seems to suggest that the design changed, perhaps more than once, over the course of Gibson producing that pickup. Originally Posted by neatomic
here's the inside of a firebird pickup
it has 2 coils of wire wrapped around blades with a single magnet below both coils...
mini hum uses polepieces with magnet below bobbin
js pup combines the 2!
^ pic from-Dissecting more Firebird pickups (pic heavy) | My Les Paul Forum
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^ i'm sure the firebird pup "evolved" over the years!!
the best example of a magnet wrapped with wire to produce sound is the classic danelectro pickup...basically a magnet wrapped with wire and stuck inside a lipstick type case
doesn't get any simpler..and yet some great tones...don't dismiss the oddball designs!!..always been a fan!
cheers
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This was always my understanding. The ceramic magnets were one change, though I don't know if they've stuck with it. I think Lollar's article was written before the switch, though my memory is mighty fallible nowadays. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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The DeArmond 1100 is wound as two coils directly on two weird rubberized ceramic magnets, one for the top two strings and the other for the bottom four. If I get it right (and seriously, this could be 100% wrong) at least one coil is partially wound and then they are wound some more across both magnets together. Originally Posted by neatomic
It's a tricky piece of work -- as complex at the Dano Lipstick PU is simple.
Wish I could find a pic.
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That was an excellent learning experience for me.
It proves that the “JSmith” pickup that came with my Gibson Solid Formed is NOT A Johnny Smith pickup after all.
This is the plate with the tapped and drilled holes for the pole pieces.
And this is the 2 bars. Note, no adjustable pole pieces. Anywhere.
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Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Rob i thought that as well.
some years ago saw an older USA blues guy playing . yum tone will try find out who, maybe Clarence gate mouth that kind of player.
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yeah gatemouith brown used a firebird
cheers
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Wow... and right from Gibson! That would piss me off (unless I loved the pickup), then it would just irk me. Originally Posted by Max405
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check out this excellent article about mini-humbuckers...including the firebird and the js floater
original js had one coil with blade magnet and one coil with slug screw polepieces...
Larrivee Forum V Mini Humbucker - Bose Portable PA Encyclopedia FAQ & Wiki
Joe D, it looks like the modern js pup still use the magnetic blade in one coil, but doesn't use screws in the other coil..but they may use some kind of non adjustable slugs instead...same effect..the caveat being you can't adjust polepiece height
in a normal paf humbucker you have one coil with screws and one coils with slugs...the bar magnet is under the bobbin....with the js, the one coil has the blade magnet...but in the modern version they subbed out the screws for slugs...in the other coil
having the magnet within the coil is like fender and danelectro..of course fender used magnetic pole pieces rather than a blade, but same principle...the magnet is closer to the strings..big difference in tone...that's why js floater has such clarity...
cheers
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Huh, that's an interesting thing to think about. We all know that adjusting the pickup closer to or farther from the string affects tone, often described as "more electric" when closer and "more acoustic" when farther away. Originally Posted by neatomic
The magnet, being closer to the string, will magnetize the string more strongly (the pickup magnet is static and more or less silent in the circuit, but the string itself becomes a vibrating magnet). That changes the inductance of the string vibrating over the coil generating alternating current and frequencies.
Too close and the magnetic pull starts to change the string's vibrations (stratitis). With a humbucker you can't get the magnet that close, because it's on the far side of the pickup from the string, but with a pickup where the polepieces or the blades are the magnets you could. So with the original Firebird and JS pickups, the magnet is much closer to the string like a Strat pickup, etc. Hah! The adjustable polepieces of the PAF try to allow for some adjustability for that clarity, by changing the shape of the magnetic field.
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^ yes, having the magnet within the coil certainly makes it more sensitive to pickup height & adjustment...why its kind of strange to have it in a floater...since your pup height adjustment is kind of limited...i'd imagine they are careful about the gauss/strength of the magnet...
why dearmond dynasonic and later gibby alnco v staple were such great pups...they used actual magnets in coil but had height adjustment capability via the elaborate spring elevator system within..a real great old school piece of design!!
cheers
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I've always wondered why pickups have two screws. They can be adjusted straight up and down only.
If they had a screw at each corner, you could angle the pickup -- like have the side closest to the bridge be further away from the strings than the neck side.
That will change the tone, because, in effect, it changes the length of string which is sensed by the pickup. Same reason that lowering the pickup and raising the pole pieces accentuates high frequencies.
The point is that for the cost of two screws and some changes in the bracket and pickup ring, you get more tonal options.
If anybody has done it, I haven't seen it.
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actually some pups have 3 screws..which allows for some tilt adjustments...
also the pickup ring can be changed out/or reversed to accomodate various tilting factors
cheers
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The Vintage Vibe CCRider pickup has 3 screws - two on one end, one on the other, and that allows for a good deal of tilt. I don't hear a lot of difference in tone however it's tilted. I use the system to level the pickup because it looks better to me.
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Neatomic,
I thought it had a slugs too. But the round things you see are depressions in the thin coat of wax from the holes that were drilled in the back plate. They are not slugs in the bar in the south coil.
One thing is for certain, this pickup is amazingly clear. Not loud. In fact, it gets loud enough only if I lift it close to the strings. There’s a piece of nitro safe foam rubber under the pickup.
I personally think the factory tunes and de tunes pickups to match the thinness of the top for feedback reasons. Heritage did this with all my Johnnys. Gibson however put the real Johnny Smith pickup on the GJS because the top had the perfect thickness. A powerful pickup matched to a top that could handle the volume.
But my Johnny wasn’t anywhere near the acoustic guitar this particular guitar is. Not even close.
It was a beauty though. She’s probably nice and tan right now.
Joe D
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Ditto for Vermont made KA paf, though lot's of folks still use 2 screw mounting. The pickup supports both. You decide when you drill (or not) the ring. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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