Gibson ES-175 Neck Profiles

[O'Mahony]

I've long admired Gibson ES 175's and am thinking hard about stepping up to a vintage P90 175 guitar. What I am trying to determine are neck profiles and their possible evolution? Hoping that maybe a forum member(s) may have some ideas on this? So any basics or generalizations regarding this topic?

I once handled an early post war ES 300 that had a neck I liked (chunky) and seemingly a bit more than a 1 11/16” nut width all which I liked but still my no.1 pick is a 175. I realize handling guitars is the ideal way to go but due to circumstances mail order may be my path. Thanks in advance for any responses.

FWIW, I'm Tim and a bit of a longtime lurker here. I would like to compliment the forum admin and its members for being such a polite and encouraging site. Peace, tim

[Stringswinger]

I've long admired Gibson ES 175's and am thinking hard about stepping up to a vintage P90 175 guitar. What I am trying to determine are neck profiles and their possible evolution? Hoping that maybe a forum member(s) may have some ideas on this? So any basics or generalizations regarding this topic?

I once handled an early post war ES 300 that had a neck I liked (chunky) and seemingly a bit more than a 1 11/16” nut width all which I liked but still my no.1 pick is a 175. I realize handling guitars is the ideal way to go but due to circumstances mail order may be my path. Thanks in advance for any responses.

FWIW, I'm Tim and a bit of a longtime lurker here. I would like to compliment the forum admin and its members for being such a polite and encouraging site. Peace, tim

Tim,

I own 3 ES-175's (my favorite model of guitar, the L-5 is a close second) and have owned (and played) many others.

My experience with the P-90 models (1949-1956) is that they have a full neck, but not as full as a 30's L-5, and that they have a 1 11/16 nut. In the 60's through early 80's, you get mostly slim necks, though I have played a few mid 60's examples that had the full neck. By the mid 80's the necks got fuller again and the 59 reissue has a very full neck (like an actual 59), though again, nowhere near as full as a 30's L-5.

From 1966-1968, there are some narrow nuts and while most have a C profile, some have a D profile (early 60's and mid 2000's).

Hope that helps and welcome!

[skiboyny]

GIBSON ES-175 NECKS

The standard Gibson neck used on ES-175s and other Gibson guitars went through a few changes in size and shape over the years.
A lot of people are a fan of the chunkier necks of the early years, compared to the thinner necks that emerged in the 60s.

• 1949-1959 – the necks of this time period, also known as “baseball bats”, are considered the best by many because they are large and comfortable. Neck width is 1 11/16?, measured at the nut.
• 1960-1962 – these necks feel very thin, which makes playing them harder on the hands.
• 1963-1964 – back to a larger neck, but not as large as the 50s-era necks.
• 1965-1967 – these necks, also known as “pencil necks”, are very small because the nut width is reduced (1 9/16?).
• 1968-present – nut width is changed back to 1 11/16? and the back of the neck has the same size as those from the 1963-1964 period.

[Stringswinger]

GIBSON ES-175 NECKS

The standard Gibson neck used on ES-175s and other Gibson guitars went through a few changes in size and shape over the years.
A lot of people are a fan of the chunkier necks of the early years, compared to the thinner necks that emerged in the 60s.

• 1949-1959 – the necks of this time period, also known as “baseball bats”, are considered the best by many because they are large and comfortable. Neck width is 1 11/16?, measured at the nut.
• 1960-1962 – these necks feel very thin, which makes playing them harder on the hands.
• 1963-1964 – back to a larger neck, but not as large as the 50s-era necks.
• 1965-1967 – these necks, also known as “pencil necks”, are very small because the nut width is reduced (1 9/16?).
• 1968-present – nut width is changed back to 1 11/16? and the back of the neck has the same size as those from the 1963-1964 period.

I had a 63 that had the wide thin neck profile of the 1960-1962. And I have played 1964 and 1965 examples that also had the thin neck.

I have played a 67 that had a thick neck with the narrow nut and I owned a 1967 single PUP example that had a thin neck with the narrow nut.

There is a LOT of variation from 1968 to present. My 1997 175 has a much slimmer neck than my 2017 175.

Skiboy, I do not think your chart is entirely accurate.

[Easy2grasp]

I say just jump in with both feet and get the 1950's P90 ES-175. You know you want it. Listen to your head. If for some crazy reason, you don't like it - modify it or easily sell it. There are so many cats who found that era 175 the perfect tool. Like there is Herb Ellis, Howard Roberts, Jim Hall, Tommy Tedesco, Kenny Burrell...who am I leaving out? Oh yeah, me! Personally I wouldn't modify a vintage one, but it didn't stop me from buying one that had been modified by Tommy Tedesco. Just do it, man! I promise you that you won't regret it. Maybe
refret but never regret!

[vinnyv1k]

We can all agree that the 175 is one of the greatest guitars ever.
Are you listening Gibson !!! There neck profiles have been all over the map. Best to grade individually. I will say that their modern neck profile is the most comfortable for me. A perfect medium soft C/D.

[Ray175]

When I bought my last ES-175D (a 1961) back around 1991, the previous owner(s) had done a lot of "mischief" to it.

• Firstly, they clearly thought the neck was too wide and removed the binding,
• reprofiled the neck to extremely slim,
• removed the pickup covers (lost) on the PAF's but had the sense to leave them on the guitar (thank goodness),
• put it though physical hell by wearing what must have been a rasp instead of a belt buckle - large area of bare wood on the back
• crack around jack socket, but that's not uncommon

Nonethless the potential was there and I was able to buy it for next to nothing. Over the next 12 years or so I set about getting it restored to a reasonable player's (obviously not collector's) condition.

Crazy Parts were able to make up some pickup covers that look the part and the age. As far as the bodywork goes, I decided to keep it in its "road warrior" condition...... The neck was the real challenge, and after 8 or 10 years of talking to different people I found someone I could trust to build a new neck, recycling as much of the original as possible (fingerboard, inlays, trussrod etc.) After trying many different 175s with different necks I asked for the neck to be made to its original 1961 profile, which suits my hands. I have to agree with what others have posted, over the years the 175 has gone through some significant changes in neck shapes and profiles.

[jads57]

I'd consider either getting an original ES-175 from the 1950's or earlier. Or perhaps a newer Historic reissue. If you don't like Humbuckers there are easy pickup swaps that can be made.

One other thing ,the ES-175 models made from late 1980s forward have a much heavier laminate construction. As opposed to the original design models.

[citizenk74]

, Tim! I have found that holding all my guitars at a 45 degree angle greatly diminishes the effect of different neck widths and profiles. I use straps to aid in this. My 2004 ES-175 is one of the easiest to play of all my guitars. It's got the '57 Classics and purrs like a kitten. Of course, P90s are great as well, but may be harder to find as originals. My advice would be to get an ES-175 of what ever era and variation, then trade or sell into your ideal instrument. You may be surprised at how well properly adjusted humbuckers can sound. In any case, good luck with your quest!

[RobbieAG]

I used to own a 1956 with P-90s and currently own one from around 1970. I wasn't able to play them back to back, but the necks were very similar. I actually prefer my current one as the 1956 had some bowing above the 15th fret. Both of them have the wider neck (1 11/16). I had a student that had one with the thinner neck (1 19/32) from the 60s which I thought was too thin.

[O'Mahony]

Gentlemen, thank you all for the great responses, exactly what I was looking for! Sounds like the necks through the early P90 years were predictably beefier. I realize that is a question to ask at time of purchase, knowing life can always deal exceptions.

Stringswinger, interesting that the 30's L-5 being chunky. Wonder if any of the early Gibson archtops had any wider nut widths? Regardless 175 is a fire that needs to be indulged.

Skiboyny, I have heard of other brand electrics having 1 9/16” and even 1 5/8” nuts, so I guess why not Gibson. A 1 7/8” flat top gets most of my play time and I am hoping to make friends with 1 11/16, for me a 175 might start life with a capo on the second or third position.

Easy2grasp, I would have to say that you are spot on regarding “how bad I want it” for me this has been a longtime coming and I will jump in, head first. I'm someone who has always given these things much research and also lots of time for reflection before I jump. It has served me well. Easy, you photo show a sweet trio! That would be enough to keep me out of trouble!

Vinnyv1k, I know right, out of all of Gibson's line up why is the 175 on the block? I can sure think of other that would be pushed out of the air lock first.

Ray175, good on you for having the foresight to save and love on a vintage 175. My life experiences tell me that those are the guitars that end up with the best sound and likely showing some serious mojo! Like they say “if only it could talk”

jads57, my whole life is stuck in a vintage realm, my house 1926, truck 1954 (daily driver for 40+ yrs) my watch, even my wife.....she got old on me but still has some mojo. I am aware of some of the contemporary 175 offerings and their wider nut options but nothing is gonna answer the call for me but a pre-57. I do like Humbuckers but P90 is calling.

Citizen74, I believe you have my humor, your not Irish by chance....smile. For me this guitar will be an all in effort at getting it right on the first try. I am in the camp of putting money on the front side and get a no alibi box in one go. Experience in other arenas has shown me that I might typically end up with less guitar for same money once the luthier gets his. This is a LONG time want and having just put in for SSI I think it is time. Even if I do have to sell my wife's car to do it....smile

RobbieAG, I really like big necks, have giant hands and fingers so neck profile is the difference in comfort for me. Honestly the 1 11/16” scares the heck out of me. Regardless of all, the iconic 175 refuses to quietly fall through the cracks for me.

Everyone, I am bowled over on the responses, again a big thank you and also for the welcome. Pick on! Cheers, tim

[wintermoon]

"Wonder if any of the early Gibson archtops had any wider nut widths? '

the 20s and 30s 16" L-5s frequently had 1 3/4" nuts
after the Louisville Slugger necks on the Loar signed L-5s there's a period in '27-'28 [actually '29-'30 now that the ledgers have been updated] that have a very modern rounded profile, then they began to have larger V shaped necks
not all 30s 17" L-5s had chunky necks, especially in '39 early '40 which is a very modern almost late '59 carve.

[wintermoon]

• Skiboyny is pretty accurate overall, I put my findings in parantheses below his. Keep in in mind Gibson typically didn't change sizes on Jan 1 of a particular year, it's mostly random, early part of the year, mid, late, etc...
• 1949-1959 – the necks of this time period, also known as “baseball bats”, are considered the best by many because they are large and comfortable. Neck width is 1 11/16?, measured at the nut.
• [pretty accurate, but most late '59s early '60 necks are more modern feeling]
• 1960-1962 – these necks feel very thin, which makes playing them harder on the hands.
• [again pretty accurate and sometimes referred to as "tapeworm necks" wide and flat]
• 1963-1964 – back to a larger neck, but not as large as the 50s-era necks.
• [pretty accurate but some early '63s are still thin profile and later '64 through mid '65 they're thinner again but still 1 11/16" nuts]
• 1965-1967 – these necks, also known as “pencil necks”, are very small because the nut width is reduced (1 9/16?).
• [narrow nut widths show up starting mid '65 through mid '69]
• 1968-present – nut width is changed back to 1 11/16? and the back of the neck has the same size as those from the 1963-1964 period.
• [mid '69 nut widths back to 1 11/16" but slim profile through much of the 70's]

[skiboyny]

i don’t doubt that there many variants. With Gibson there is really no telling what might happen. I wouldn’t take the chart as gospel but perhaps a place to start when looking for a certain profile. This is not a chart I wrote btw. It was one I found a while ago when i had similar questions. I believe it’s posted on this site.

I had a 63 that had the wide thin neck profile of the 1960-1962. And I have played 1964 and 1965 examples that also had the thin neck.

I have played a 67 that had a thick neck with the narrow nut and I owned a 1967 single PUP example that had a thin neck with the narrow nut.

There is a LOT of variation from 1968 to present. My 1997 175 has a much slimmer neck than my 2017 175.

Skiboy, I do not think your chart is entirely accurate.

[O'Mahony]

wintermoon, thank you for sharing this information. I will be fun to put early Gibson archtops on my radar and pay attention to their necks and nut widths. Love the neck inlays on the early L5's these guitars, Gibson archtops in general are all pleasing to my eye.

[Easy2grasp]

I used to own a 1956 with P-90s and currently own one from around 1970. I wasn't able to play them back to back, but the necks were very similar. I actually prefer my current on somee as the 1956 had some bowing above the 15th fret. Both of them have the wider neck (1 11/16). I had a student that had one with the thinner neck (1 19/32) from the 60s which I thought was too thin.

I have to admit I have run across the little rise around the 14th fret on vintage 1950's Gibsons. But my '59 is so perfect! If you get one that needs work, talk to your guitar tech about correcting it or send back.