Install P90 Dogear on Gibson ES-175

[pablonavarroB]

Hi all!

I have been dreaming of having a Gibson ES 175 with P90, but I also love the one I own: a 1990 Gibson ES 175 with the mahogany back and sides. So I was wondering if it was possible to install in any possible way dogears on it, without drilling any extra holes on the guitar, be it with spacers or something similar. I want real P90, not humbucker-sized P90, the tone nor the look is the same!

I remember someone did that to a Epiphone Broadway and the results were super nice, but the post was taken down, that's why I'm creating this new one.

Thanks to you all in advance!

[neatomic]

the dogear is narrower (nut to bridge), but longer (E to e string) than a humbucker..it requires the humbucker top rout to be lengthened on both sides...spacers will cover the width differences..but cutting is needed...

also you would need to drill holes for dogear cover...unless you tweaked the spacer to secure the screws without going thru into the body...and i haven't seen such a spacer for sale!


cheers

[rabbit]

Might want to tape one in place & give it a try before altering that ES-175.

Many of the original jazz git's with P-90's might be a significantly lighter than your guitar.

At least, I think it makes a difference with my ES-125.

Best of luck to you, in any event.

[RobbieAG]

I think you'll regret altering the guitar. I'd either go with the humbucker sized P90s (not sure why that's not an option) or buy another guitar (many options) to see if it's really for you. Then if it is, you can sell your 175 without destroying its value.

[lawson-stone]

I think you'll regret altering the guitar. I'd either go with the humbucker sized P90s (not sure why that's not an option) or buy another guitar (many options) to see if it's really for you. Then if it is, you can sell your 175 without destroying its value.

I have an Epiphone Zephyr Regent Re-Issue (basically a 1 pickup ES175) with mahogany back/sides. I put a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat P90-in-a-humbucker shape in this guitar, and it is wonderful. The SD Phat Cat I've heard actually uses the innards of a P90 and shaves the bobbins to fit. It's a great sounding pickup and my Epi really sings with it.

I understand wanting the look, but the sound can be very closely matched if you choose wisely. I would not cut up an ES175.

[Tal_175]

I'm probably the small minority but if I wanted the look and tone of a dog ear P90, I would drill screw holes if I needed to. I don't agree with the "destroying the value of the guitar" argument. I believe in customizing guitar to one's individual tastes. If you end up selling it some years down the line and you get, say, 500 dollars less because of a couple of small screw holes, I would say it'd be well worth it. If I have to pay 500 dollars to enjoy my guitar to a fuller extend, instead of wishing it was something else, it's not that much money to spend for that. There is also the possibility that I may never sell it. That's just my philosophy.

[sgosnell]

Routing plywood is not a simple job, even if you have the proper bits and experience.

[Tal_175]

Routing plywood is not a simple job, even if you have the proper bits and experience.

There is a old thread on this topic. It doesn't seem like it'd require routing the top:
Replacing Humbuckers with P90 Dog-Ears?

[ThatRhythmMan]

I know it doesn’t have the look, and it’s not an exact tonal match, but I’ve heard the humbucker sized DiMarzio Vintage P90 come awfully close.

[pablonavarroB]

Thanks for all the answers!

I have been looking A LOT, to the humbucker sized P90, and I like very much the Monty's Humbucker-sized FM P90 (aesthetically wise, haven't had a change to listen to them), as well as the recommended Di Marzio and some Lollar. Are there any humbucker P90 that really replicate a P90? Everything I've heard sounds similar but not quite the same, I'm going for a Kenny Burrell late 50's tone. Any recommendations are appreciated!

However, I still want to try to go the dog-ear route and see if I can manage to do it.

I managed to find the thread I was talking about: Epiphone Broadway? , comment #32. He used the spacers, and my idea was: would it be possible to stick the spacers with some double-sided tape to the top of the guitar, and then use shorter screws to fix the P90 on top of the spacers?

[David B]

Thanks for all the answers!

I have been looking A LOT, to the humbucker sized P90, and I like very much the Monty's Humbucker-sized FM P90 (aesthetically wise, haven't had a change to listen to them), as well as the recommended Di Marzio and some Lollar. Are there any humbucker P90 that really replicate a P90? Everything I've heard sounds similar but not quite the same, I'm going for a Kenny Burrell late 50's tone. Any recommendations are appreciated!

Here in the UK, Mojo Pickups offer a '50s style "staple" P90 in a humbucker mount.

Humbucker Sized – Staple – Mojo Pickups

[Sam Sherry]

Are there any humbucker P90 that really replicate a P90? Everything I've heard sounds similar but not quite the same

This 2013 Premier Guitar rundown, which has decent clean clips, may be of help. Scope it out if you want to.

I've had good results with Duncan Phat Cats in some guitars. My home-brew solid-body is currently wearing Gibson P94s and I don't plan to change. Each lands in the 'P90 neighborhood' and each responds well to my preferred .012 'jazz light' set. As with all pickups, there's no 'one size fits all' universal solution.

[pablonavarroB]

I already checked that link this morning! Quite helpful

As I said, the P90 - humbucker seems the easiest, but I've yet to see a demo or a clip where the sound is what I have in mind.. However, if someone has themselves installed some, I'd be happy to see/hear a demo when using an archtop!

Until then, I'm still very interested in the spacer + dog-ear P90 route. If anyone has an idea if what I mentioned previously could work, I'd be very thankful!

[lawson-stone]

I already checked that link this morning! Quite helpful

As I said, the P90 - humbucker seems the easiest, but I've yet to see a demo or a clip where the sound is what I have in mind.. However, if someone has themselves installed some, I'd be happy to see/hear a demo when using an archtop!

Until then, I'm still very interested in the spacer + dog-ear P90 route. If anyone has an idea if what I mentioned previously could work, I'd be very thankful!

Don't forget that Kenny Burrell could pretty much get "that sound" on any guitar he played. I do think the gear matters a lot, but it's also the guy playing the gear. I bet if you gave Kenny an archtop loaded with a Seymour Duncan Phat Cat, he'd get "that sound" after about 20 seconds of knob turning. Great player seem to sound like themselves regardless of what they play.

There is still value in doing all we can to have the instrument we want. But never underestimate the technique and touch angle.

[pablonavarroB]

There is still value in doing all we can to have the instrument we want. But never underestimate the technique and touch angle.

Totally! It is not that I'm trying to emulate anyone, I just mentioned Kenny Burell as a reference sound for what I'm more or less going for.

[2bornot2bop]

I'm probably the small minority but if I wanted the look and tone of a dog ear P90, I would drill screw holes if I needed to. I don't agree with the "destroying the value of the guitar" argument. I believe in customizing guitar to one's individual tastes. If you end up selling it some years down the line and you get, say, 500 dollars less because of a couple of small screw holes, I would say it'd be well worth it. If I have to pay 500 dollars to enjoy my guitar to a fuller extend, instead of wishing it was something else, it's not that much money to spend for that. There is also the possibility that I may never sell it. That's just my philosophy.

Totally agree. Go ahead, trash the resell value on that ES175. Who cares, you made it into something you prefer.

[pablonavarroB]

That's a guitar I don't plan on ever selling, so I don't think that would be a problem. I've had it for almost 10 years, since I was basically a kid.

I'm just trying to find the best solution possible with the least amount of modifications, that's why I'm asking if the double-tape + the spacers and shorter screws is feasible. If not, I'll probably have to suck it up and go with a humbucker P90, even if it is not 100% the same. So if anyone knows of any brand/model that truly is a P90 in a humbucker enclosure, I'd be happy to take a look.

[dreamingJazz]

Here's your answer...

NECK
P90 1/8" NECK PICKUP SPACER FOR GIBSON ES-175 125 225 | Reverb

BRIDGE
P90 3/16" BRIDGE PICKUP SPACER FOR GIBSON ES-175 125 225 | Reverb

you might want to drill holes on the spacers thats the same on the HB rings.. hopefully there's enough room for four screws on the corners of the spacers.. use the same screws that came with the HB rings as those are flat on the surface then mount your Dogear P90 covers..

if you buy P90 pickups, make sure you pick the short covers to compensate for the height of the spacers (or you can just sand down the spacers to allow clearance for the dogear P90 covers..
P-90 DogEar: Lollar Pickups


and then tweak pickup heights using these shims
Shim Pack for Dogear: Lollar Pickups


Ive used the shims and they are pretty good, high quality and fits exactly the same as dog ear P90 covers..

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr

Untitled by D Y, on Flickr




Depending on your skill level and how handy you are, i think it will be an easy job.. but if not, you want it perfect, take all the parts to a luthier..

[wzpgsr]

I wonder if a creative luthier or pickup winder might be able to rig up a thin P90 mount with a flat plastic baseplate that you can screw into the humbucker mount.

[neatomic]

i don't get the confusion!...as i wrote ^, the p90 is a longer length than humbucker...so you need to enlarge the humbucker rout on the archtop...& no going back from there!! once you cut, it's done..

spacers cover any spaces left, but you still have to cut the archtop!!!

here's jason lollar-installing p90 in humbucker space...see, he needs to use router!!! spacer's a completely different issue...and equally tricky

just get a p90 in a humbucker mount...here's an older but still valid overview

Humbucker-Sized P-90 Review Roundup | Premier Guitar

cheers

[dreamingJazz]

don't get the confusion!...as i wrote ^, the p90 is a longer length than humbucker...so you need to enlarge the humbucker rout on the archtop...& no going back from there!! once you cut, it's done..

spacers cover any spaces left, but you still have to cut the archtop!!!

here's jason lollar-installing p90 in humbucker space...see, he needs to use router!!! spacer's a completely different issue...and equally tricky

just get a p90 in a humbucker mount...here's an older but still valid overview

Humbucker-Sized P-90 Review Roundup | Premier Guitar
cheers

but thats because he is mounting those soapbars on a pickguard.

ive seen ES-295’s (which is basically an ES-175 with P90s and gold color) with P90 spacers.

ive checked my dogear P90 pickups and it is flush at the bottom of the cover. So the spacer will work given the thickness and clearance from the body.

shims are different from the P90 spacers. shims are used to raise the pickup, spacers are technically, well, raising the p90 as well but functions more like the HB rings.

[neatomic]

re-watch the vid!...he routes the guitar body!!!

has nothing to do with pickguard..(that can easily be cut or replaced)...but..a p90 will not fit in a humbucker route...dogear or soapbar...

dogear has added problem that you need to drill 2 holes for cover..which will not be covered if and when you want to go back to humbucker!

lollar says it all..just watch the vid!!

cheers

[dreamingJazz]

didn't you watch vid???...he routes the guitar body!!!

has nothing to do with pickguard..a p90 will not fit in a humbucker route...dogear or soapbar...

dogear has added problem that you need to drill 2 holes for cover..which will not be covered if and when you want to go back to humbucker!

lollar says it all..just watch the vid!!

cheers

i did watch the vid.

spacer will work this way. See how it mounts on a HB route.

P90 DOGEAR PICKUP Spacers Black Set for Gibson Epiphone ES-175 225 Project NEW - $64.99 | PicClick

like I said on my post above, in order to avoid drilling on the body, the OP needs to drill four screw holes thats is in the same location as the HB rings.

and use a short screw that will just “hold” the p90 onto the spacer. Basically screwing into the spacer and not down to the body.

[neatomic]

a humbucker is 70.5 mm lengthwise

a p90 is 88mm

here's a pic..an exaggerated view..and you would never need a route that big..but gives you an idea of length requirements...



the spacer just covers...you still have to remove the wood!!!


cheers

[dreamingJazz]

a humbucker is 70.5 mm lengthwise

a p90 is 88mm

here's a pic..an exaggerated view..and you would never need a route that big..but gives you an idea of length requirements...



the spacer just covers...you still have to remove the wood!!!


cheers

exactly, the spacers will cover that space,

BUT dogear P90s dont protrude further into the body. The pickup underside is flush with the underside of the dog ear cover. So with the height of the spacer, and the dogear P90 sitting on top of it, it will have clearance.