Amp for Eastman AR-905 with Lollar Charlie Christian neck pickup

[The Colonel]

Hi All-

I recently purchased a beautiful (blonde) Eastman AR905 with a CC neck pickup. The guitar plays beautifully, and sounds great acoustically, but the amplified sound leaves something to be desired. I have a Quilter combo amp (solid state). My main complaint is that the tone is not nearly as warm as one would expect.

Does anyone familiar with these guitars (and pickups) or amps generally have any advice or comments on this -- whether it be switching to a tube amp or trying different settings on the Quilter?

Regards,

The Colonel

[sgosnell]

Trying different settings on the Quilter is by far the quickest and easiest thing to do, not to mention the cheapest. I'm not a Quilter fan because I'm not a Fender fan, but that's just personal preference. They seem deliberately voiced to sound like Fender. Personally, I prefer solid-state amps to tubes, mostly because of the weight and reliability issues. To me, the combination you have is pretty far from warm, both the guitar and the amp. But if it were me I would spend some time experimenting with settings, strings, etc before spending more money.

[KirkP]

I haven’t used a Quilter, but since the treble and bass controls are claimed to be modeled on the Fender tone stack, I’d suggest experimenting with dialing those teo controls way back for a warmer tone. There has been much discussion on this forum on taking that approach on Fender amps.

Quilter’s mid control circuit is claimed to be very different from Fender’s. I gather that it responds something like a Fender mid control as it’s turned down producing a scoop. They hint that turning it up gives more of a Dumble voice. For warm tone the mid control probably should be left close to the center.

I’m just madly speculating here, based mostly on marketing literature for the Dumble 101:
“Featuring an interesting new take on the usual three-knob EQ section, the Bass and Treble controls use traditional “tone stack” technology, yielding a familiar bright chime based on 50 years of tradition, while the active Mid control provides a more strongly voiced cut/boost function for increased versatility. Increasing the Mid control boosts the frequencies that give an aggressive “D-Style” bite to the sound, while decreasing Mid brings out that familiar clean-60’s Blackface tone.”

I might be totally off base. I’ll be interested in responses from Quilter owners.

[Cunamara]

The CC is a single coil, albeit much fatter sounding than a Strat style single coil. It exhibits that clarity and a tendency to have a bright top end. With a Fender style tone stack this will be accentuated, setting the bass and treble at about 0.5 and diming the mid knob, if there is one, will approximate a flat response; bring up the bass to taste. I have never played through a Quilter but they tend to be described as falling into the Fenderish camp.

Also, check the pots and cap. It's a single coil, so if the pots are 500k then you could swap in 250k ones and tone things down some. IIRC I have a .03 cap on mine but it might be a .047; if you've got 500k pots and a .022 cap as for a humbucker, that would explain the brightness IMHO.

I play my Vintage Vibe CC through a tweed 5e3 amp which is very warm, even approximating an early to mid 60s Jim Hall vibe (on his ES-175 with the P90- think his albums with Sonny Rollins, Art Farmer or the early ones with Desmond). There is still a top end clarity and some brightness in Jim's tone in those days. Mine is a floater on a neck bracket and actually sounds a lot like the guitar with the volume knob down to 6-8, more electric with the volume at 9-10. I really like that pickup. It also sounds very nice through my Polytone Baby Taurus- the one guitar I have that is really flattered by that amp, in particular.

If you listen to Charlie Christian or Jimmy Raney on their ES-150s, they have warmth but still are quite bright. Ditto Tal Farlow on his ES-250 or ES-350, both of which had CC pickups (Tal replaced the neck P90 with a CC on the latter). Or Barney Kessel. Those old jazz monsters did not go for the wooly wet blanket school of jazz tone. Horns are bright and loud, they had to keep up!

[The Colonel]

Thanks for all these responses. I was quite disappointed when my 13 year old son told me that my Mexican made Tele, with a Lollar CC, sounded more like an archtop (plugged in) than my Eastman archtop with the Lollar CC.....

I am going to play with the amp settings and the height of the pickup. I already have flat wound 12s on there, which I like. If tinkering with the amp settings and pickup height don't do the trick, I'll try plugging into tube amps and see if that makes a difference. If it does not, I made a mistake in buying this guitar. To be sure, it's beautiful, and has a very nice acoustic sound. It also has the same neck profile, nut width, and string spacing of my Eastman acoustic, so it is easier to switch between the two.

[sgosnell]

Are you certain that your 13 year old son knows how archtops sound?

[The Colonel]

He listens to Kenny Burrell, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass and more. I trust his judgment.

[David B]

Plenty of swing (Jonathan Stout) and jump blues (Tommy Harkender) guitarists have taken up the Nocturne Junior Barnyard pedal to give that classic octal tube amp flavour to their Quilter amps.

Thread: Nocturne The Jr. Barnyard Preamp

[Littlemark]

Try using acoustic strings. I use Martin retros. 15 $ experiment can save you alot later.

What sound are you going for?

[The Colonel]

Probably like most aspiring jazz-blues players, I LOVE the sound that Kenny Burrell got when playing with Jimmy Smith. Jazz tone with a little bit of grit. Honesty, I don't see putting acoustic guitar strings on it achieving what I want -- I'm actually toying with the idea of swapping the CC pick-up for a P90. But that's going to be a ton of work for a Luthier.

[Chazmo]

If you decide to get a new amp, a Vintage 47 would work well for that guitar to get a fat sound with a little grit.

[The Colonel]

You mean something like this?

VA-185G

[Littlemark]

Acoustic strings:

Replacing your pickup with a p90 seems silly and a waste of money IMO.

[Chazmo]

You mean something like this?

VA-185G

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

[Lonestar]

I have a new Eastman 905 CC and play it through a Milkman tube amp and also through a Roland Blues Cube Artist with an Ultimate Blues Tone Capsule. Using Mogami Platinum cables on both set ups. I really enjoy both and though each has it’s own distinct sonic signature, the tonal range goes seamlessly from warm, lush, rounded notes to clean, crystal sparkle. These seem to cover all the bases for me.

[Runegitane]

I agree with the Vintage 47 suggestion. I have a Ric Supreme model that I use with my 2005 Slaman with Lollar CC. It gets a wonderful sound, just lovely. However I have found it under powered at 13watts in certain situations. The VA-185G is marginally more powerful .. I think 15Watts, more clean headroom. I wouldn't expect huge gains in out and out volume. Vintage 47 makes a sort of DI box called the Tone Transfer module. It taps right off the speaker. If you don't mind bringing a powered cabinet or clean 2nd amp to louder gigs, I have found that works, although I have found it tiresome and seldom bother. I got a DV Mark Little Jazz 12" now and for solid state it seems very warm. I like it. But no cigar compared to the V47. But DV louder, and really lightweight to carry.

[Jonathan0996]

I don't know the answer, but there are a lot of less drastic things to try than buying a new amp or pickup. You could try:

• Flatwound strings, if you're not already using them.
• Roll some treble off on the guitar (I do that almost all the time)
• Play with the tone controls on the amp, e.g., more treble, less bass, more midrange, lower all the tone controls, etc. I suggest starting out with lower settings on all the controls and experimenting from there.

I'm thinking your solution is in some combination of the above. Good luck; I hope you find the sound you're seeking.

[jazzkritter]

FWIW I find the Quilter amps are not the optimal choice for warming up a guitar. If you can, borrow a DV Little Jazz or similar known jazz amp.
I don’t know Eastmans well at all, rarely played one. Others can jump in on that model and what tonality to expect.
You’re using 12 flats? Didn’t say the brand but some popular brands are more ‘metallic’ sounding than others. First go up to 13s. Experiment by getting a 13 and 17 and see how they sound. I cannot stand 12 sound, 13 is ok, 14 is home for me.
Brand: Get thyself a set of Thomastik Infeld Jazz Swing Flats. They will mellow out in a week or so. If a guitar is still not thunking on those strings then yes, may be the box.
And my solution to the Quilter amps is to use the Brute EQ pedal made by our forum member jazzmus. (I have no financial relationship with him, he’s just a smart nice guy.). It is designed to imitate (emulate?) a Polytone preamp. Totally tames my 101 into a smooth, warm companion.
And remember for every question asked here about “how do I?” You will get a unique and possibly contrary opinion from all of us.
That includes me too!

Hey if you’re in north NJ there’s the arch top store in Summit… might be worth a visit!

jk

[entresz]

It's worth noting most Eastmans seem to be on the bright side tone-wise, more of a clear articulate sound as opposed to the warmer, fatter sound of a Gibson for example.

[Gitterbug]

As usual, plenty of good advice but not exactly convergent. Your guitar is a very special one, the reason for your tone quest and, hence, the last thing I'd touch. The rest of the signal chain includes an optional preamp, such as the praised Barnyard, the guitar amp (which contains its own preamp and power amp) and the speaker inside its cabinet. All these have an impact on the tone. Many commentators speak of the Quilters without actual experience; I have some after trying well over 20 micro-amps of various makes with my own-make cabs. There's really two tone universes on the solid state side of offerings: Quilter and DV Mark. Quilters, at least until the very latest versions, are distinctly on the bright side, whereas DV Marks (especially in their own 12" combos) are much darker. I attach an old photo showing the settings of a Quilter 101R and a DV Mark Micro 50 for a near-identical tone. Quilter's bass EQ is at almost full and treble off, while DV Mark's bass and middle are at noon and treble clearly enhanced.

Buying a new combo is almost like buying furniture for life. A separate head and cab makes your search a lot more flexible. My current go-to heads are TC Electronic BAM200 (no reverb but very warm for a solid-state) and Quilter SuperBlock US (great jazz tones from the 57 Tweed mode), while much cab testing is done through RE Luna 200R.

[Joeontheguitar]

He listens to Kenny Burrell, Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass and more. I trust his judgment.

A 13 year old who listens to Wes is a keeper, that's for sure

[DanielleOM]

Plenty of swing (Jonathan Stout) and jump blues (Tommy Harkender) guitarists have taken up the Nocturne Junior Barnyard pedal to give that classic octal tube amp flavour to their Quilter amps.

Thread: Nocturne The Jr. Barnyard Preamp

I have watched that video in the past. I got the impression that his guitar, pickup, and playing style got him to about 95% of his sound and the Jr Barnyard took him that additional 5%.