Anybody Played the Epiphone Masterbilt Deluxe Archtop Round-Hole?

[Sam Sherry]

Early in my jazz guitar gear rambles I was a sucker for the late 20s/early 30s Gibson archtops with the large round hole. At different points I had a 1929 L-4, an early 30s L-4 and a 1935 L-75. Those are all 16 x 24.75" models with carved tops. After a while I moved on.

Now I'm seeing prices drop on the recent Epi 'Masterbilt Deluxe.' 17 x 25.5". Arched (not carved -- 'solid formed') spruce top, H-braced, ply maple back and sides, allegedly ebony FB. My favorite inlays ever, the Epiphone Triumph notched diamonds.

If you've played this, I'd be grateful if you would save me some grief. Tell me it sounds weird and stuffy. Talk about the skinny rockin' neck and the plastic finish. Remind me that I'll be ditching it before the year's out or something.

Deep thanks as always.

[Bflat]

Hi,

I did get a chance to play one in a music store. It felt just ok. More like an acoustic guitar without the sweet unplugged sound. I didn’t bother plugging it in so I can’t say how the electronics sounded. I wouldn’t recommend it unless you got a super deal on it. Best of luck!

[neatomic]

i was excited when i first heard epi announcing their release..i too was interested in the roundhole models, since i also like the old gibby roundholes...well after playing a few when they first hit the stores, i must say i was mightily disappointed...one of the great things about the old gibbys is that they are so incredibly light weight...and still fairly big sounding for their size...epis are total opposite...very heavy builds and very poor acoustic projection...things are made worse by the bridge piezo pickup (which is abt the worst choice for a "jazz" pickup)

they were really aimed at the singer songwriter crowd...strummers who wanted to look vintage cool

unfortunately a big miss...they werent around for long either...esp after all the initial hype

cheers

[wintermoon]

Honesty I tried to keep an open mind but was expecting the worst and was sadly even less than underwhelmed.
A tip off was the low price before I even played one, now low price doesn't always equate to poor quality/sound as Eastman demonstrated when their carved guitars hit, but I just had a feeling.
I've owned and played more than my share of originals and wasn't expecting anything close, but these are sadly a distant shadow of them.

Save your $ for something decent imo.

[Sam Sherry]

Thank you folks.

I don't mind spending money to check things out but I am mighty darn happy to not waste money.

Much appreciated. JGF to the rescue!

[campusfive]

Yeah, seconding all of the lackluster reviews. These are not great guitars.

[TedBPhx]

Have you looked at those Waterloo offerings?
Waterloo by Collings Guitars | Handmade in Austin, Texas

[skittles]

Love my Waterloo WL-S.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bill Eisele]

It looks like Joe Vinikow at archtop.com just received an Epiphone Howard Roberts Standard in his shop: 1969 Epiphone Howard Roberts Standard, sunburst, solid carved top with oval soundhole, floating J. Smith pickup, 1 of 9, immaculate has arrived.

I think it has close to the characteristics that you’re looking for: 16” lower bout, 24.5” scale length, oval soundhole, and the top is carved compared to the Gibson Howard Roberts laminated top. I don’t think these have the intricate vine inlay on the headstock like the Gibson HR, though.

BTW, I have no association with the guitar. Just happened to notice it perusing his website instead of doing something more useful like practicing.

[Sam Sherry]

archtop.com . . . 1969 Epiphone Howard Roberts Standard,

Thanks for speaking up -- I appreciate it, Bill.

The attraction of the Chinese MB Deluxe is that used prices are getting down below the $500 mark. My question was, "Hey, do these things stink, because I would take a $500 flyer on it if you tell me they don't." The gist of the response was, "Sam, don't waste your time." That's precisely I was looking for. Spot on -- JGF came though. I'm very grateful.

archtop.com . . . 1969 Epi HR Standard . . . solid carved top with oval soundhole, floating J. Smith pickup . . . I think it has close to the characteristics that you’re looking for. . .

Yessir! The Epi Howard Roberts has occupied my mind for a long time. The Deluxe model is usually 25.5" scale with the vine peghead. Unfortunately for me, they're not common and usually hang for several thousand dollars.

I would be overjoyed to assist anyone who needs a volunteer chaperone for their 60s Epi HR Deluxe.

And if you see me with a 17" Chinese MB Deluxe, it's because because it was too cheap and I am too dumb!

[rolijen]

The three I played were pretty bad. Only one of the three had decent projection and tone. The other two were acoustically mediocre. Fit and finish were on par with the other $400 guitars coming out of SE Asia. The Masterbilt idea was alluring, but when I discovered it to be largely marketing, the execution was disappointing. Caveat: This was 2 years ago, so QC may be better now. I hope they’ve improved.

[John A.]

I've not seen a roundhole archtop that had at all decent a sound in the cheaper echelons (and TBH, even more expensive ones like vintage L4's aren't so great, IMO). The Epi Masterbilts are strange beasts. I tried a few -- I thought from a playability and visual standpoint they were fine, but they don't really cut it as acoustic guitars, and the piezo makes no sense. The 17" f-hole one comes closest to being a legit acoustic guitar, but pretty much any cheap flattop blows it away in terms of both volume and sound quality. In theory they might make OK platforms for experimenting with pickups, but you'll wind up spending more than you would for a Loar LH-350 with a carved top (IMHO, not a great guitar, but way better than the Epis).

If you want something that looks like a retro "jazz" guitar, has a real acoustic sound, and has a hole in the middle instead of f-holes, a gypsy jazz guitar is the best game in town. Many great options there (Gitane, Cigane, etc.) for well under a grand. That, or a smaller bodied flattop that has the look of the parlor guitars some of the early jazz guys played. For instance, there are a few different Recording King and Washburn parlor guitars that look the part, sound quite good, and are super cheap. You could definitely get your inner Nick Lucas thing going on one of those.

John

[Matt Milton]

For instance, there are a few different Recording King and Washburn parlor guitars that look the part, sound quite good, and are super cheap. You could definitely get your inner Nick Lucas thing going on one of those.

I have the Recording King RNJ26C - their 'Nick Lucas/Greenwich Village' model - and it's a fantastic guitar. Bought it secondhand for next to nothing off eBay last year and it's my main jazz guitar. They did a version in black, which looks much cooler (like Nick Lucas's guitar in fact) but I'm very happy with it. These were disconteinued a few years ago but some online stores still have them lying around.

[neatomic]

...The Masterbilt idea was alluring, but when I discovered it to be largely marketing, the execution was disappointing. Caveat: This was 2 years ago, so QC may be better now. I hope they’ve improved.

not likely as epi gave up on that line long ago...as i stated ^ , they weren't around for very long

also, while the waterloos and recording kings ^ are nice small body, parlor or 12 fret roundholes, they are flattops not archtops...the only other company i remember making an affordable archtop roundhole in recent times was loar...but that was also pretty universally panned and didnt last long either

nothin beats those original gibbys



cheers

[neatomic]

ps-

short lived loar lh440



cheers

[Sam Sherry]

nothin beats those original gibbys

I saw that guitar on Abercrombie's gear-shelf during my one-and-only lesson with him (on DB!!). I said something about the Gateway record, which I wore out. His only comment was, "That guitar actually wasn't on that album at all."

ps-

short lived loar lh440



cheers

Oh you fiend! Talk about a true Impossible Gear Quest . . . and nobody knows whether it's a goose or a fried egg at the end!

[Esport]

I bought a used Masterbuilt Epi flattop, sight unseen, and disliked it immediately. It had a dead quality that was really unappealing. I replaced it with a Seagull S6 that is a much more satisfying guitar in every regard.

[Gabor]

I was there too :-)

In the last years I heard zillion of guitar demos on youtube and other sources. I had developed some skills to judge guitar tone from this way (I know it sounds crazy) because I had to. I am lefty, so I never has chance play and try guitars in shops in advance...

Now I pretty much blind test can recognize a guitar sound with any kind of vibe or mojo from a dead thing, both acoustically and through a jazz amp.

A few years ago when masterbuilts came out, and there is a lefty model too, I was tempted... So In a half year period I played with the thought, and repeatedly did my demo listening sessions.

Those guitars has nothing to do with the real instruments (soundwise), they have no vibe, no mojo, that was my conclusion... so I closed the case :-)

[Woody Sound]

I've not seen a roundhole archtop that had at all decent a sound in the cheaper echelons (and TBH, even more expensive ones like vintage L4's aren't so great, IMO).

Yes, I owned an original Loar era L4 (and the earlier harp guitar). They sounded kinda thumpy and tubby.

[wintermoon]

Yes, I owned an original Loar era L4 (and the earlier harp guitar). They sounded kinda thumpy and tubby.

Yeah, those old Gibson's w round/oval soundholes aren't the most refined sounding archtops, there's a reason Eddie Lang jumped on the L5 bandwagon after playing an L4.
That said I've heard lots of superb sounding oval hole guitars by other makers even going back to D'Angelico's from the 40s and 50s, Koontz and D'Aquisto later and modern builders.

[PaddyBrumson]

If you can find one, the short run of Eastman AR400s sounded pretty good for a reasonably priced all laminated oval hole archtop:

[Sam Sherry]

If you can find one, the short run of Eastman AR400s sounded pretty good for a reasonably priced all laminated oval hole archtop

PB, I appreciate the comment.

About 10-12 years ago I bought an Eastman AR604 oval-hole online. That one sounded like the packing box it shipped in.

Maybe the plywood guitar sounds better, but based on that experience it's not a topic I'm likely to explore.

[John A.]

Yeah, those old Gibson's w round/oval soundholes aren't the most refined sounding archtops, there's a reason Eddie Lang jumped on the L5 bandwagon after playing an L4.
That said I've heard lots of superb sounding oval hole guitars by other makers even going back to D'Angelico's from the 40s and 50s, Koontz and D'Aquisto later and modern builders.

I don't think I've heard one unamplified, the Koontz's I've heard amplified are beautiful (e.g. Pay Martino on Exit, possibly my all time favorite tone). But I think those might go for a little more than an Epi Masterbilt ...

John

[wintermoon]

Koontz's are kind of hit and miss unamplified in that many I've played acoustically weren't cannons, but excellent tonally especially amplified, they generally have thick carved tops and are heavy builds designed more for electric playing. I've played several later D'Angelicos that had these characteristics. Anyway, I had one of the very last if not the last one Sam made (17" blonde f hole model) and it was pretty good acoustically, not particularly loud, but one of the best guitars I've ever heard through the floating DeArmond 1100, fat as you can possibly imagine, just like the Martino recordings.

Sam made quite a few oval soundhole models including Pat's guitar, many of which had sliding internal covers to cut down on feedback yrs before any other luthier implemented the idea.
A good friend, the late Howard Krive had the largest Koontz collection in the world including his teacher the great Harry Leahey's 18" f hole model. Howard had a huge collection including quite a few D'Angelico's but he felt Harry's Koontz was hands down the best guitar he ever played. He eventually wound up w/ mine as well, it was hard to say no to him, a true gentleman. I sure miss that guitar, but miss him way more, rip HK.