Klira Archtop

**supersoul** · 07-21-2020, 06:47 AM

Just a hello! This is my first post here, and I'd like to share what led me to lurk here for the past couple of months... an old German archtop!

The brand is Klira and I was told that it's from the sixties. It's probably nothing special, but it sounds great, plays nice, and the price was right. I know it's a West German brand, but that's about it.

The world of old German archtops is not easily understood, especially for someone like me who doesn't speak German very well. But I learned a lot from the various threads and informed discussions on here. In my quest I played around twenty different guitars at various shops around Berlin. I took my time and didn't buy until I found the one that felt right to me. I've had it about 6 weeks and I have no regrets. It's a good guitar.

I also thought that this would be a nice way to start (yet another) thread about these old German guitars. I'm a player, not a collector, and I do think that they are an economically reasonable way to get a decent instrument.

**docsteve** · 07-21-2020, 07:42 AM

Nice! Where did you get it? I got my 1960 Höfner archtop from American Guitars in Goethestrasse but I know you can make some amazing discoveries still.

**supersoul** · 07-21-2020, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by docsteve

Nice! Where did you get it? I got my 1960 Höfner archtop from American Guitars in Goethestrasse but I know you can make some amazing discoveries still.

I bought it at Rixdorf Music on Hermanstrasse. They had a lot of different old archtops, all in playable condition. The guy kept bringing more out for me to try!

American Guitars was another place I spent time. Also Berlin Guitars over in Schöneberg.

I think the real deals are to be found on Ebay-kleinzagen, but you really have to know what you're doing!

**docsteve** · 07-21-2020, 10:48 AM

I used to live in Rixdorf, but the shop wasn't there in my day. I'll check it out next time I'm in Berlin.

Good luck with your guitar!

**gitman** · 07-21-2020, 12:55 PM

That pickup is a good one !

**Gitterbug** · 07-21-2020, 02:28 PM

Looks like the guitar is in excellent condition for its age. If the neck is OK and the fretboard korrekt (old Höfners' weren't), nothing to worry about. I always thought this was an East German manufacturer, but a quick fact-finding surf confirms the family moved from Czech territory to West Germany after the war. A lower-end brand, however, I believe. Probably laminated top. Old German archtops are fascinating, as they were built in an area with centuries-old violin-making tradition and a plentiful supply of maple and alpine spruce. Of course, the thrifty Germans were using red beech wherever they could. I hope Hammertone will chime in, he's the expert.

**neatomic** · 07-21-2020, 03:13 PM

nice...zoller pickup is great choice...kinda looks like a framus (esp. the color)..which was zollers guitar of choice before he later switched to hofner

congrats & enjoy

cheers

**supersoul** · 07-21-2020, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Gitterbug

Looks like the guitar is in excellent condition for its age. If the neck is OK and the fretboard korrekt (old Höfners' weren't), nothing to worry about. I always thought this was an East German manufacturer, but a quick fact-finding surf confirms the family moved from Czech territory to West Germany after the war. A lower-end brand, however, I believe. Probably laminated top. Old German archtops are fascinating, as they were built in an area with centuries-old violin-making tradition and a plentiful supply of maple and alpine spruce. Of course, the thrifty Germans were using red beech wherever they could. I hope Hammertone will chime in, he's the expert.

I don't know enough to say for certain, but my guess is that it is a laminated top. The neck is straight and the truss rod works. I believe it's had a refret as well. Intonation is good enough to be able to play chords up around the 12th fret and still be in tune.

One thing that attracted me to it was that it looks like it's been played a lot. The lacquer is worn in places, and there are the normal dings that come from being used. It likes to be played, and that makes me want to play it.

The story is really fascinating, with the expulsion of Germans from the Czech republic after the war. I'd like to visit Markneukirchen, where there is a musical instruments museum as well as a Framus museum. Premier Guitar has a nice article on the area: Musicon Valley: The Home of German Lutherie | Premier Guitar

Originally Posted by neatomic

nice...zoller pickup is great choice...kinda looks like a framus (esp. the color)..which was zollers guitar of choice before he later switched to hofner

I love the "Black Rose" color! and the Zoller pickup is indeed very nice. I've been messing around with recording it, using a combination of the pickup direct and a condenser mic in front.

**Hammertone** · 07-21-2020, 05:13 PM

The Klier family ended up in Bubenreuth along with many other instrument makers as part of the expulsion of German-speakers from the Schonbach area after the war. Klira made a wide range of archtop guitars, from lower-end laminated boxes to some very nice carved top guitars. I think the Klira Toneking was their best guitar, made at the end of the line, just prior to their closing down - typically 17", with a solid spruce top.

Klira archtops typically have a distinctive body shape and f-hole shape that makes them very easy to spot. Your guitar is a mid-line, highly functional, all-laminated @16" archtop. Perfect for use with a floating or top-mounted pickup. Very similar to all sorts of other 16" all-laminated archtops offered by Hofner (it's very similar to a Hofner Model 456/S), Astro, Fasan, Framus, Hopf, Hoyer, Isana, Tellson and a few more.

Yours has been worked on - original high-quality tailpiece, replaced bridge, excellent pickup, refretted and so forth. Original tuners, should be fine as well. I also see a truss rod cover a a most likely replaced string spacer behind the zero fret - if it has an adjustable truss rod, it's most likely from the early 1960s. Enjoy playing it!

**rabbit** · 07-21-2020, 06:04 PM

Hello!

Congratulations, lovely guitar.

**citizenk74** · 07-21-2020, 06:28 PM

**Ol' Fret** · 07-22-2020, 06:50 AM

Never owned a Klira, but played some. Here's an actual offer of another Klira from the same period for Euro 200, if the OP needs a template for the pickguard: Klira Jazzgitarre Schlaggitarre in Baden-Wurttemberg - Simmozheim | eBay Kleinanzeigen

So many intertwined stories about German archtop guitar makers exist... The Klira boss Otto-Josef in Bubenreuth had a daughter, a hottie who attracted a lot of suitors, among them Roger Rossmeisl. She eventually married the guitar maker Erwin Weidner who had worked for Alosa. Roger, Erich, and some other rejected lovers, managed to remain friends, play handball together, drink beer, play guitar, etc., and they were still friends when Roger died in Bubenreuth.

Weidner was accountable for the Klira guitar department. I'm quite sure that the Fender Montego bodies were supplied by Klira. Weidner made some nice carved one-off archtops, and Hammertone nailed it above with the Klira Toneking that can make a really nice sounding guitar, perhaps comparable to the Framus AZ-10:

US folks would wonder if they knew how much "DNA" of old Europe is in American vintage commodities, not only through the former guitar workforce at Epiphone and Gibson. In fact, some designs still considered to be most iconic American, for example the North American (NAA) P-51 Mustang, were created by immigrants. It's father and chief designer Edgar Schmüd (Ed Schmued), a notorious workaholic and lone wolf, resigned in 1952 when that company imposed team work... When Schmued set about designing his first jet fighter in 1944 (later to become the F-86 Sabre), far apart a guitar and aircraft maker named Artur Lang repaired and produced parts for the operational Me-262 at one of the largest aircraft factories in German Eger; he too got an inspired lone wolf after the war.

Speaking of workaholics: good and fascinating news for all Artur Lang fans - stay tuned!

**supersoul** · 07-22-2020, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by Hammertone

The Klier family ended up in Bubenreuth along with many other instrument makers as part of the expulsion of German-speakers from the Schonbach area after the war. Klira made a wide range of archtop guitars, from lower-end laminated boxes to some very nice carved top guitars. I think the Klira Toneking was their best guitar, made at the end of the line, just prior to their closing down - typically 17", with a solid spruce top.

Klira archtops typically have a distinctive body shape and f-hole shape that makes them very easy to spot. Your guitar is a mid-line, highly functional, all-laminated @16" archtop. Perfect for use with a floating or top-mounted pickup. Very similar to all sorts of other 16" all-laminated archtops offered by Hofner (it's very similar to a Hofner Model 456/S), Astro, Fasan, Framus, Hopf, Hoyer, Isana, Tellson and a few more.

Yours has been worked on - original high-quality tailpiece, replaced bridge, excellent pickup, refretted and so forth. Original tuners, should be fine as well. I also see a truss rod cover a a most likely replaced string spacer behind the zero fret - if it has an adjustable truss rod, it's most likely from the early 1960s. Enjoy playing it!

Thanks for the info, especially that's it's similar to the Höfner 456/S. It gives me a little more idea of what it is. The truss rod is adjustable and it still works.

All those brands you mentioned are very similar to each other, sometimes to the point of being indistinguishable. The offset headstock, the pearloid bar fret inlays, how the cut-away joins the neck with a bit of space. The black rose finish is very common, as well. I guess it makes sense if they all came from the same area and share the same workers and the same violin-making lineage.

I was doing a bit of reading about the Alemannic school of violin making. It is a different design from the Cremona (Stradivari) style, made in the area north of the Alps, including Schönbach in the Czech republic. How that influenced their archtop guitar design, I have no idea, but it's an interesting thought to me. Btw, all this is from a couple evenings of internet research. I'm not an expert at all.

**Wallabee666** · 07-24-2020, 06:23 PM

Very interested to read about your Klira archtop and the background info from the informed replies to your thread.
I am in Melbourne Australia and have had a Klira archtop for nearly forty years. I like it as a daily player and have changed things on it accordingly and not been concerned with keeping it as original as possible.I acquired it from a friend in the early 1980's. He had picked it up in a pawn shop in Traralgon, Victoria.
I have recently done some work on the fretboard to remove some hollows from 60 years of playing, followed by a refret. It plays very nicely and the acoustic tone has improved a lot following the removal of a metal scratchplate and sliding pickup system that hung off the bridge. A Kent Armstrong 'Jazzy Joe' pickup with DR Zebra strings sounds nice too.
When I first got the guitar I reveneered the feedstock and replaced the tuners. Some years ago I did a neck reset and refinish.
The kind folk German Vintage Guitar have helped with a positive ID and logo.
Colin.

**Wallabee666** · 07-24-2020, 08:21 PM

Does anyone know when adjustable truss rods began to be fitted to Klira archtops like these?
Mine has a non-adjustable steel reinforcing bar in the neck.
I would appreciate it if anyone can suggest when mine may have been built.
It is all laminated, originally had one piece of pearloid covering the headstock. The pickup that was on it when I got the guitar was labelled 'melo' and slid along rails between the neck and bridge.
I shall post some more photos soon.

**Hammertone** · 07-24-2020, 11:23 PM

Most German archtop makers introduced adjustable truss rods @1960 or so. There was a bit of transitional period as they used up their existing stocks of neck blanks and necks.

**Wallabee666** · 07-25-2020, 03:41 AM

Thank you Hammertone.
So, prior to adjustable truss rods did they always have steel reinforced necks? Or was there a time when there was no reinforcement or adjustable truss rods fitted?
A photo of mine with and without the scratchplate....

**supersoul** · 07-25-2020, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Ol' Fret

Never owned a Klira, but played some. Here's an actual offer of another Klira from the same period for Euro 200, if the OP needs a template for the pickguard: Klira Jazzgitarre Schlaggitarre in Baden-Wurttemberg - Simmozheim | eBay Kleinanzeigen

So many intertwined stories about German archtop guitar makers exist... The Klira boss Otto-Josef in Bubenreuth had a daughter, a hottie who attracted a lot of suitors, among them Roger Rossmeisl. She eventually married the guitar maker Erwin Weidner who had worked for Alosa. Roger, Erich, and some other rejected lovers, managed to remain friends, play handball together, drink beer, play guitar, etc., and they were still friends when Roger died in Bubenreuth.

Weidner was accountable for the Klira guitar department. I'm quite sure that the Fender Montego bodies were supplied by Klira. Weidner made some nice carved one-off archtops, and Hammertone nailed it above with the Klira Toneking that can make a really nice sounding guitar, perhaps comparable to the Framus AZ-10:

US folks would wonder if they knew how much "DNA" of old Europe is in American vintage commodities, not only through the former guitar workforce at Epiphone and Gibson. In fact, some designs still considered to be most iconic American, for example the North American (NAA) P-51 Mustang, were created by immigrants. It's father and chief designer Edgar Schmüd (Ed Schmued), a notorious workaholic and lone wolf, resigned in 1952 when that company imposed team work... When Schmued set about designing his first jet fighter in 1944 (later to become the F-86 Sabre), far apart a guitar and aircraft maker named Artur Lang repaired and produced parts for the operational Me-262 at one of the largest aircraft factories in German Eger; he too got an inspired lone wolf after the war.

Speaking of workaholics: good and fascinating news for all Artur Lang fans - stay tuned!

I've been following that Klira on Ebay-Kleinzagen, since it looks almost identical to mine. It's price keeps dropping. But I can only play one guitar at a time! At some point in the future I might want to get a solid carved top. But not any time soon, or at least I'm not in a rush. I've really connected with the one I have, as one does with a good guitar.

That's an interesting story of romantic intrigue among the guitar luthiers! It's stories like that that can really help to bring the history to life. It's mind-boggling to think that over 2000 luthiers moved to Bubenreuth in the years after WW2, after being exiled from the Czech republic following the war.

Did each of these companies have their own workshop/factory? I know that they all usually bought the hardware from one supplier (Schaller?) but I wonder about the similarities in neck design as well. Were they made outside the factories and then brought in to be assembled with each company's body? I guess it also depended on if the instrument was a high-end model or a more mass-produced design.

Speaking of German DNA in the US, the Saturn moon rocket design was based on the V-2 rocket, with Werner Von Braun being the leader of both programs. The US imported nearly all of the V-2 development team en masse, stuck them in the desert and had them continue building rockets.

Thank you for the interesting tidbits!

**supersoul** · 07-25-2020, 08:22 AM

Originally Posted by Wallabee666

Thank you Hammertone.
So, prior to adjustable truss rods did they always have steel reinforced necks? Or was there a time when there was no reinforcement or adjustable truss rods fitted?
A photo of mine with and without the scratchplate....

Your Klira is really beautiful. It looks nice while not being too fancy. It's naturally good-looking without being vain. The wood design in the headstock is especially cool.

I also prefer it without the metal pickguard and pickup-rail system. I think in general I like the less cluttered look of having no pickguard.

It's nice to meet another Klira player, and to hear that yours is also a good player! That's really what jumped out at me when I first played mine, that it just felt good in my hands and seemed like it wanted to be played. It has a nice dynamic response, in that I can play it softly or really dig in.

**xavierbarcelo** · 07-25-2020, 09:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ol' Fret

Never owned a Klira, but played some. Here's an actual offer of another Klira from the same period for Euro 200, if the OP needs a template for the pickguard: Klira Jazzgitarre Schlaggitarre in Baden-Wurttemberg - Simmozheim | eBay Kleinanzeigen

So many intertwined stories about German archtop guitar makers exist... The Klira boss Otto-Josef in Bubenreuth had a daughter, a hottie who attracted a lot of suitors, among them Roger Rossmeisl. She eventually married the guitar maker Erwin Weidner who had worked for Alosa. Roger, Erich, and some other rejected lovers, managed to remain friends, play handball together, drink beer, play guitar, etc., and they were still friends when Roger died in Bubenreuth.

Weidner was accountable for the Klira guitar department. I'm quite sure that the Fender Montego bodies were supplied by Klira. Weidner made some nice carved one-off archtops, and Hammertone nailed it above with the Klira Toneking that can make a really nice sounding guitar, perhaps comparable to the Framus AZ-10:

US folks would wonder if they knew how much "DNA" of old Europe is in American vintage commodities, not only through the former guitar workforce at Epiphone and Gibson. In fact, some designs still considered to be most iconic American, for example the North American (NAA) P-51 Mustang, were created by immigrants. It's father and chief designer Edgar Schmüd (Ed Schmued), a notorious workaholic and lone wolf, resigned in 1952 when that company imposed team work... When Schmued set about designing his first jet fighter in 1944 (later to become the F-86 Sabre), far apart a guitar and aircraft maker named Artur Lang repaired and produced parts for the operational Me-262 at one of the largest aircraft factories in German Eger; he too got an inspired lone wolf after the war.

Speaking of workaholics: good and fascinating news for all Artur Lang fans - stay tuned!

Very interesting stories, as usual! Do tell about Lang, please!!!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**Ol' Fret** · 07-25-2020, 11:33 AM

Xavierbarcelo, thank you!
So as not to derail this thread, just one annotation: the Lang report is the dedication of my good friend HR, the only person I can think of compiling an accurate story about the work of the best German archtop guitar maker from puzzle pieces.
It will be impressing for everyone floored by Lang guitars. Just the correct compilation of the three-page overview of topics, the results of which may seem almost banal or self-evident to the uninitiated, took decades of intensive research.
The report in German language is coming and will be published gradually online. For those who don't read the German language, my humble self gladly agreed to help.

**xavierbarcelo** · 07-25-2020, 02:13 PM

Excellent! Looking forward to it!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

**Hammertone** · 07-25-2020, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by Ol' Fret

Xavierbarcelo, thank you!
So as not to derail this thread, just one annotation: the Lang report is the dedication of my good friend HR, the only person I can think of compiling an accurate story about the work of the best German archtop guitar maker from puzzle pieces.
It will be impressing for everyone floored by Lang guitars. Just the correct compilation of the three-page overview of topics, the results of which may seem almost banal or self-evident to the uninitiated, took decades of intensive research.
The report in German language is coming and will be published gradually online. For those who don't read the German language, my humble self gladly agreed to help.

Doc: post it or a link to it in the Lang thread when you can.