Telecasters and Bigsby?

[Hep To The Jive]

I'm thinking of taking the Bigsby off mine. I went down a string gauge, from 11's to 10's, just because I need it for some rock playing, and the feel is just too squashy, like there is not enough tension. Would normal string through fix it, or maybe it's a particular tele I have that somehow low tension? I doubt it, it's regular 25.5 scale, but never know...

I'm guessing not a lot of folks here use Bigsby on a tele, but I maybe some have any thoughts?

Regular B5 unit btw.

[neatomic]

hate to see that bigsby come off your beautiful tele hep...if you mean the bigsby arm feels too squishy with 10's, you can get a different sized spring...that will give more tension...bigsby makes them..as do reverend..

another trick is to wind more string around the tuning peg when you re-string...increases angle from nut to tuning peg


cheers

[Hep To The Jive]

hate to see that bigsby come off your beautiful tele hep...if you mean the bigsby arm feels too squishy with 10's, you can get a different sized spring...that will give more tension...bigsby makes them..as do reverend..

another trick is to wind more string around the tuning peg when you re-string...increases angle from nut to tuning peg


cheers

Thanks, no I mean the string tension. It's like once I tried a top loader, kinda like that. Not as bad though, top loaders dont feel good at all for me.

I can always put it back, no biggie. But I'm curious.

Wind more string, hmmm, that's an interesting trick. But I think I noticed if wind too much the tuning stability suffers, or am I wrong?

[neatomic]

more tuning peg winds..if done cleanly and properly should have no negative impact on tuning...in fact it could help

a string through would be the best otherwise

also make sure body to neck angle is right...most bigsby teles require a shim in the neck pocket....in fact bigsby sells/sold an aluminum shim...angle will also be affected going from bigsby to string thru

cheers

ps- also remember when bigsbys were first designed in the 50's...12's were considered light strings!!

[jads57]

I use 11 thru 50 on all my non archtop or flat tops. I don't find it hard to bend them at all. Maybe try Dunlop Heavy Core 10s for down tuned guitars?

[Hep To The Jive]

more tuning peg winds..if done cleanly and properly should have no negative impact on tuning...in fact it could help

a string through would be the best otherwise

also make sure body to neck angle is right...most bigsby teles require a shim in the neck pocket....in fact bigsby sells/sold an aluminum shim...angle will also be affected going from bigsby to string thru

cheers

ps- also remember when bigsbys were first designed in the 50's...12's were considered light strings!!

Yea, I have a shim in the neck pocket. I can leave it there right?

My coworker teacher has a strat, and when I play it I realize I miss that resonance when you hit a chord and you really feel the guitar resonates. With 11's my tele was ok, but with 10's not really.

[Hep To The Jive]

I use 11 thru 50 on all my non archtop or flat tops. I don't find it hard to bend them at all. Maybe try Dunlop Heavy Core 10s for down tuned guitars?

Strong hands I suppose. But the bending is not all, I like how the lighter strings sound with distortion better to my ears.

[neatomic]

Yea, I have a shim in the neck pocket. I can leave it there right?

My coworker teacher has a strat, and when I play it I realize I miss that resonance when you hit a chord and you really feel the guitar resonates. With 11's my tele was ok, but with 10's not really.

the shim is needed for the increased angle the bigsby install needs..when you go to typical ash tray bridge you will probably need to remove shim to get decent action

strat's resonance is heavily dependent on the spring tremelo system in body..it's like a spring reverb unit!!..won't be the same with tele..even a string thru

cheers

[Hep To The Jive]

the shim is needed for the increased angle the bigsby install needs..when you go to typical ash tray bridge you will probably need to remove shim to get decent action

strat's resonance is heavily dependent on the spring tremelo system in body..it's like a spring reverb unit!!..won't be the same with tele..even a string thru

cheers

Ahh I see what you mean, no, my bridge is already typical ashtray, just the back modified for the Bigsby. Maybe thats why I have the tension issue?

Disagree about strat vs tele, I had non Bigsby tele before- the same feel, lots of resonance. I'd even say any solidbody properly setup have that.

I ordered the ferrules, man, in China the standard Fender ones cost more than $30! Not cheap to experiment haha.

[ruger9]

I assume your tele has a string tee for the E and B strings? You could add one for the G and D strings, and that adds tension. I know because I have a Cabronita that someone modded before I got it, and they added the G/D string tree... and I could figure out why there was TOO much tension compared to my 2 other teles... it was the tree. Took those strings out of the tree, tension went back to what I'm used to. That would only affect those 2 strings, of course...

Interesting thread, because I have ordered a Bigsby to INSTALL on that Cabronita.... but I don't like the sound of it decreasing string tension... I guess I could go up to 11's if that's the case... hmm... I'll have to go over to the Gretsch forums and pick their brains on this one....

[Hep To The Jive]

I assume your tele has a string tee for the E and B strings? You could add one for the G and D strings, and that adds tension. I know because I have a Cabronita that someone modded before I got it, and they added the G/D string tree... and I could figure out why there was TOO much tension compared to my 2 other teles... it was the tree. Took those strings out of the tree, tension went back to what I'm used to. That would only affect those 2 strings, of course...

Interesting thread, because I have ordered a Bigsby to INSTALL on that Cabronita.... but I don't like the sound of it decreasing string tension... I guess I could go up to 11's if that's the case... hmm... I'll have to go over to the Gretsch forums and pick their brains on this one....

Well, I use a regular ashtray bridge, and I understand if use a dedicated Bigsby bridge for tele, like the one they use on Mustangs I think? So that would increase the angle, (but you'd have to shim the neck). So maybe my design is flawed.

With 11's no problem though, and if you play jazz, it's the right sound.

And I used to own a few Gretsches, all with Bigsby and never had a tension issue. It's specifically the Tele thing I think.

[ruger9]

Well, I use a regular ashtray bridge, and I understand if use a dedicated Bigsby bridge for tele, like the one they use on Mustangs I think? So that would increase the angle, (but you'd have to shim the neck). So maybe my design is flawed.

With 11's no problem though, and if you play jazz, it's the right sound.

And I used to own a few Gretsches, all with Bigsby and never had a tension issue. It's specifically the Tele thing I think.

The neck angle (higher on Gretsches, as well as Jazzmasters with Bigsbys) does make them different than a tele with the ashtray bridge. With a tele, people generally people use the B5 with the tension bar (which some people HATE), and a notched ashtray bridge. That's what I'm going to do. I'm not sure how much it will affect the tension, but it MUST... it's just like on a Strat: with the tremolo floating (which a Bigsby ALWAYS is): the tension is balanced between the Strat tremolo springs and the string pull. Same thing on a Bigsby, but it's between the Bigsby spring and the string pull.

And I know from experience a floating bridge is ALWAYS "looser/softer" feeling than a hardtail.

I can't imagine the tension doesn't feel softer with a Bigsby, and I would think if you removed the Bigsby the tension FEEL would increase. I don't really know the difference between a string-through and a top loader, having never played a top loader.

[mr. beaumont]

Remove, smash with hammer, burn

[ruger9]

Remove, smash with hammer, burn

"Can't we all just get along?"

[Doctor Jeff]

I put a GFS tremolo on mine. Cost about half a regular Bigsby. Very sturdily made. The spring is very stiff, in fact maybe a bit too stiff, if you're really into the tremolo thing. I'm not, so doesn't bother me. I also have close to zero interest in string bending. I think I use 11's on mine.

[Hep To The Jive]

Remove, smash with hammer, burn

I thought you would turn up to leave a comment haha. I know already, you love Bigsbys as much as I love the Dead

[neatomic]

I thought you would turn up to leave a comment haha. I know already, you love Bigsbys as much as I love the Dead

lets keep everybody happy!....haha





cheers

[neatomic]

when moving from 11's to 10's the tension on the neck changes...a small turn of the truss-rod might help with the feel

to get it to work properly with the ashtray bridge and bigsby...you'd need raise the saddles and shim the neck...it's all about angles!!!...that's why fender offered a tilt neck adjustment for a few years

string trees have their purpose with fenders shallow headstock angle, but they are also a point of friction..esp with whammy...

also, a guitar body with a big hole cut into it filled with claws and springs and screws and trem blocks and topped with a piece of pickguard material!, should definitely sound different from a solid wood body!!

hep is your tele body already drilled for string through? otherwise a trickier job than it seems...a drill press is recommended

cheers

[ruger9]

to get it to work properly with the ashtray bridge and bigsby...you'd need raise the saddles and shim the neck...it's all about angles!!!...that's why fender offered a tilt neck adjustment for a few years

This is incorrect. I have talked with many people, including a couple of luthiers, who say if you use a hardtail bridge- like the Callaham ashtray bridge that has been notched out for the Bigsby, or even the Fender Bigsby kit they sell that comes with their own hardtail bridge, the neck angle does NOT have to be changed. I wouldn't have messed with it otherwise. The B5 Bigsby comes with a tension bar for this reason. To maintain proper down angle across the saddles, and also the reason for the notches in the proper hardtail bridges:

[neatomic]

This is incorrect. I have talked with many people, including a couple of luthiers, who say if you use a hardtail bridge- like the Callaham ashtray bridge that has been notched out for the Bigsby, or even the Fender Bigsby kit they sell that comes with their own hardtail bridge, the neck angle does NOT have to be changed. I wouldn't have messed with it otherwise. The B5 Bigsby comes with a tension bar for this reason. To maintain proper down angle across the saddles, and also the reason for the notches in the proper hardtail bridges:

haha..isn't this exactly where we came in?...the op-hep...has the same setup you describe!!!...bigsby with notched ashtray...and yet he's complaining about problems with it... the feel!!!...so obviously that method is not foolproof!!

for hep to fix that, some angles need to be changed... he'd have to raise the saddles...which would raise his action, and therefore need a shim to counteract that higher action

& btw, adding a shim is no scary or invasive procedure!!..many fenders come with shims from the factory!...if you can install a bigsby, you can drop a shim in the neck pocket


cheers

[RomanS]

Sorry, but definitely no shim needed for a B5/ashtray setup - I've built quite a few of those, for myself and for friends. The break angle from the saddles to the tension bar on the Bigsby is already pretty extreme without shimming (much steeper than on any guitar with a floating bridge and a B3 or B6).
Adding a shim would make it even worse, even harder trem action, and even more possible tuning problems...

As for the "feel" problem, well, that's just how it is with bridge tailpiece designs that have a length of string behind the bridge - you're not going to get the same immediacy as with a string-thru Tele ashtray, or a Gibson wraparound bridge. And sorry, 10s are definitely too light for use with a Bigsby, especially one of the tension bar kind... Maybe you can make those 10-52 sets work, or those 10.5-48 sets from GHS? Personally, I would go with 11 any time...

[neatomic]

hey roman!...i value your opinion from tdpri...so how would you go about fixing op's problem, given his string of choice?...just get over the "feel", aside

cheers

ps- also i'm not talking about massive movements/shims...it's all about fractions...just enough to get it to work for you..the way you want it to...

you wouldn't tell billy gibbons to change his string set... you'd find a fix! haha

lastly, all bolt on's are truly a synthesis of their parts..and not all parts the same or exactly matched...that's why fender used shims and had the tilt neck adjustment

[RomanS]

I'm not disputing the use of shims at all (I use them myself without any qualms, when necessary) - but mounting a B5 on a Tele definitely does not require adding a shim (unless, of course, your particular Tele already needed one without the Bigsby).

As for the OPs string gauge predicament - as I said, maybe try to see whether 10-52 sets or 10.5 sets work? Other than that - no real solution...
Same thing as when you're playing an acoustic archtop, or a big dreadnaught, and want a loud and punchy tone - there's no way you're going to get that with 10s, so you'll have to learn to adapt...

BTW, if Billy Gibbons wanted to use a Bigsby, I'd also tell him to lose the 8s, and switch to 11s - can't change the laws of physics, even for celebrities!

[neatomic]

BTW, if Billy Gibbons wanted to use a Bigsby, I'd also tell him to lose the 8s, and switch to 11s - can't change the laws of physics, even for celebrities!

the bad news is, he uses 07's!! haha

cheers

[neatomic]

the angle from a string thru tele over the saddles is far more severe than from a bigsby!...that's the way leo intended it...very sharp angles over saddles...lap steel style

cheers