How do you know the Fender guitar you bought is the original?

**Tal_175** · 03-21-2021, 06:41 PM

Nevermind a used Fender but even if you bought a brand new American Fender Telecaster from a reputable store, how do you know all the parts or even the body is the original one sold to the the store?

Most big stores have 15 or even 30 day full refund return policy. It seems like anyone can buy an American Fender guitar and just swap parts from a less valuable copy (or a Mexican model) and return it for a full refund. There is nothing on Fender bodies, pickups or hardware that indicate they are American Fender parts. Telecasters have a serial number on the bridge plate but not on the actual pickup. The necks may say "Made in the USA", though some reissue Americans don't even say that. American necks are generally 22 frets and Mexicans are 21 (but there are exceptions to that). Leaving the neck aside, every part, even the body can be swapped. There are some stickers for QC checks and what not, that's it. These stickers and stamps seem to be very inconsistent from year to year.

So can you even verify the Fender you got is the guitar you paid for even if you're buying new from a reputable store?
When you buy used, then pretty much all bets are off as to what you are getting, right?

**Tal_175** · 03-21-2021, 06:52 PM

The same goes with Fender pickups. I have bought Fender Custom Shop pickups in the past. There is nothing, absolutely nothing on the actual pickups that one can check to verify what they actually got. Not even a Fender logo. How do I know if someone didn't swap them with their cheaper pickups and return for a full refund?

**Stringswinger** · 03-21-2021, 06:58 PM

That is always the problem with bolt on neck Fender guitars. Are they original? You pay your money and you take your chances. I have bought Gibson guitars that came with changed parts replete with misrepresentations made by the sellers, so this issue is not just a Fender problem. There are a lot of less than honest sellers out there, and some of them are dealers. Mankind's creator has some serious quality control issues when it comes to the moral compass.....

Caveat Emptor.

**John A.** · 03-21-2021, 07:30 PM

There's a lot of discussion of this on the various Fender-oriented message boards. Certain things are really obvious - for instance alnico vs ceramic magnet pickups, "rolled" vs sharp edges fingerboards, steel vs pot-metal bridges. Other stuff like the color of the winding wire or number codes. But there are people with detailed knowledge, and if you post pictures on Strat-talk or TDRPI, you'll get good information.

I also think shops are probably attuned to this sort of scamming. Selling a guitar that has had counterfeit parts swapped in is a big reputational risk. Doing so knowingly is potentially criminal.

John

**Cunamara** · 03-21-2021, 07:43 PM

From photos I have seen, the MIM bodies have some extra holes drilled under the pickguard.

**Tal_175** · 03-21-2021, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

There's a lot of discussion of this on the various Fender-oriented message boards. Certain things are really obvious - for instance alnico vs ceramic magnet pickups, "rolled" vs sharp edges fingerboards, steel vs pot-metal bridges. Other stuff like the color of the winding wire or number codes. But there are people with detailed knowledge, and if you post pictures on Strat-talk or TDRPI, you'll get good information.

I also think shops are probably attuned to this sort of scamming. Selling a guitar that has had counterfeit parts swapped in is a big reputational risk. Doing so knowingly is potentially criminal.

John

I recently got a hot-rod Tele used. The seller seemed like an honest person. Luckily, hot-rods have mini-humbucker sized neck pickups, I could see that the body was originally routed specifically for this uncommon pickup size and THEN finished. These teles come with lacquer finished body and necks unlike the regular American and Mexican models. So I did the acetone test to verify that the finish was indeed lacquer. But all these are rather unusual features, I don't know how I could've possibly checked the authenticity of a more generic model. I guess posting pictures is the only option.

**John A.** · 03-21-2021, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

I recently got a hot-rod Tele used. The seller seemed like an honest person. Luckily, hot-rods have mini-humbucker sized neck pickups, I could see that the body was originally routed specifically for this uncommon pickup size and THEN finished. These teles come with lacquer finished body and necks unlike the regular American and Mexican models. So I did the acetone test to verify that the finish was indeed lacquer. But all these are rather unusual features, I don't know how I could've possibly checked the authenticity of a more generic model. I guess posting pictures is the only option.

... Or becoming as obsessed with these details as the guys who vet pictures on forums.

Otoh, if you buy a Fender with fake parts and you're happy with it and can't tell that they're fake, that tells you something about authenticity.

John

**neatomic** · 03-21-2021, 09:07 PM

shows you when it comes to bolt on production style guitars, it doesn't much matter!

if you can't see or hear the differences, do they even matter...aside from the $$$?

leo was genius! ...in many many ways

i have worked on mim fenders (and even "dreaded" squiers), that i liked more than custom $hop fenders!

cheers

**DRS** · 03-25-2021, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Nevermind a used Fender but even if you bought a brand new American Fender Telecaster from a reputable store, how do you know all the parts or even the body is the original one sold to the the store?

Most big stores have 15 or even 30 day full refund return policy. It seems like anyone can buy an American Fender guitar and just swap parts from a less valuable copy (or a Mexican model) and return it for a full refund. There is nothing on Fender bodies, pickups or hardware that indicate they are American Fender parts. Telecasters have a serial number on the bridge plate but not on the actual pickup. The necks may say "Made in the USA", though some reissue Americans don't even say that. American necks are generally 22 frets and Mexicans are 21 (but there are exceptions to that). Leaving the neck aside, every part, even the body can be swapped. There are some stickers for QC checks and what not, that's it. These stickers and stamps seem to be very inconsistent from year to year.

So can you even verify the Fender you got is the guitar you paid for even if you're buying new from a reputable store?
When you buy used, then pretty much all bets are off as the what you are getting, right?

Tarnations - you've got a point! How do we know anything is genuine. That new Chevy 3/4T you just bought? Maybe someone took it for a test drive, swapped all the new parts under the hood and replaced with aftermarket krap from a parts store and then returned the vehicle.

**Tal_175** · 03-25-2021, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by DRS

Tarnations - you've got a point! How do we know anything is genuine. That new Chevy 3/4T you just bought? Maybe someone took it for a test drive, swapped all the new parts under the hood and replaced with aftermarket krap from a parts store and then returned the vehicle.

Well someone I know said he was playing an American Tele in a Long and McQuade store (a well known music store chain in Canada), he was familiar with the model and he noticed that the neck had a thinner profile than it should. He told the employees, they took it for inspection, and verified that the neck was wrong and probably swapped by a previous customer before they returned it. He got a big discount.

I don't know much about the vintage car market, but it seems like this isn't just a hypothetical paranoa in the guitar world. Of course when you buy used, the situation is even more precarious.

**citizenk74** · 03-25-2021, 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

Well someone I know said he was playing an American Tele at Long and McQuade (a well known music store chain in Canada), he was familiar with the model and he noticed that the neck had a thinner profile than it should. He told the employees, they took it for inspection, and verified that the neck was wrong and probably swapped by a previous customer before they returned it. He got a big discount.

I don't know much about the vintage car market, but it seems like this isn't just a hypothetical paranoa in the guitar world. Of course when you buy used, the situation is even more precarious.

I really hope the kind of person that thinks this is OK is a vanishingly small % of the population. I fear it is not. Seriously, this is just so wrong on so many levels. SMDH.

**teeps** · 03-25-2021, 01:48 PM

Aha - so that might be the story behind some of the parts deals you see on eBay where you think why on earth part out - butcher - a quality instrument

**Gitfiddler** · 03-25-2021, 02:25 PM

I honestly never thought about this issue before reading this thread. In all of my many years of buying/selling/playing guitars, I've only bought one Fender Strat. It's a '96 SRV and it was used. Since it has a unique left hand trem-bridge, neck shape, pau ferro fretboard and the artist's decal signature, I'm fairly certain its legit. But I can see how most any Fender could have swapped parts. I'm surprised Fender hasn't taken steps to put matching serial numbers on their necks and bodies.

**icr** · 03-26-2021, 05:41 PM

I still have my father's 1952 Fender. The neck and tuners were replaced twice and the body replaced once with a more colorful one. The electronics and hardware were redone at least once also. The case fell apart and was replaced with a new one. In fact, the guitar looks just like a new one now...but of course this is a real VINTAGE 1952!!!

(Sarcasm alert)

**BBGuitar** · 03-26-2021, 06:33 PM

One word comes to mind "paranoia".

**Tal_175** · 03-26-2021, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by John A.

Otoh, if you buy a Fender with fake parts and you're happy with it and can't tell that they're fake, that tells you something about authenticity.

John

I've never owned a MIM Fender. So no, I can't tell if the pickups on my guitar are the ones used on Mexicans or Americans.

I've owned other cheaper Fender copies like Godins as well as American ones and Warmoth builds. A MIM Fender and still sound and play great, there is no contradiction here. It seems like many people speak very highly of MIM Fenders.

The fact that the guitar can still sound good and the new owner (or maybe even nobody) can't tell if some of the parts were swapped by cheaper parts, doesn't make it right for someone to pay for the more expensive model but get the guitar with parts that's sold for cheaper. So I don't really get your point.

**Tal_175** · 03-26-2021, 07:02 PM

I think some people got the point of this thread. It seems like Fender, with a little effort, can make it more difficult to get away with swapping parts. Nothing will completely prevent such crimes. But by taking some simple measures, it can be made more difficult, more expensive and more criminal. These can deter all but the most organized crime networks from attempting such crimes. It'll also give an easy way for the owners and honest sellers/stores to verify the integrity of their products.

**Gitfiddler** · 03-26-2021, 07:12 PM

Auto theft chop shop operators had their illicit profits dramatically reduced after NHTSA and the NICB pushed for adding VIN numbers on some of the most stolen parts of every vehicle.

Fender (and all makers of bolt-on guitars) should start putting serial numbers on all of its proprietary parts.

**pauln** · 03-26-2021, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

How do you know...?

For me it is easy; I ordered a brand new model that had not yet arrived in the stores, so my order was directly to the new Corona plant through the Fender dealer. Took about six weeks, dealer called when it was delivered and I opened it in the store. That was 33 years ago. Further confirmed a while back when I discovered that John Cruz had left his name inside (and I found out who he is).

**Litterick** · 03-27-2021, 05:13 AM

I once reported to Fender someone selling counterfeit decals, paperwork and serial numbers online. I received no response.

**waltf** · 03-27-2021, 08:02 AM

Aren’t the custom shops very well documented? I recently bought one and the body and neck have several stamps and serials.

But what does it matter if you like the guitar and it’s not collectible.
Claptons blackie was also a partscaster.

**Tal_175** · 03-27-2021, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by waltf

Aren’t the custom shops very well documented? I recently bought one and the body and neck have several stamps and serials.

But what does it matter if you like the guitar and it’s not collectible.
Claptons blackie was also a partscaster.

It would've been problem if Clapton had PAID for an original 54 Strat but but he got a partcaster which is the point of this thread.

**waltf** · 03-27-2021, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

It would've been problem if Clapton had PAID for an original 54 Strat but but he got a partcaster which is the point of this thread.

wait, didn't i mention "if not collectible" in my post?

But ok, usa/mexican/ japanese models all have different serial numbers on the neck, different body markings (and slightly different shapes).
So it's fairly easy to see if a neck is correct for that specific body.

Yes someone could take the time to remove the serials and apply others, but i doubt with the time involved it would be very profitable.
Ordering a guitar, unboxing, removing the pickguard, swap the pickups, rewire everything, boxing the guitar again, dropping it of at the postoffice and this all for what, 150 dollars profit if the store doesn't notice?

**Tal_175** · 03-27-2021, 09:25 AM

Originally Posted by waltf

wait, didn't i mention "if not collectible" in my post?

I was assuming you were responding to the OP. But maybe you were making a different point all togeher.

Originally Posted by waltf

But ok, usa/mexican/ japanese models all have different serial numbers on the neck, different body markings (and slightly different shapes).
So it's fairly easy to see if a neck is correct for that specific body.

Yes someone could take the time to remove the serials and apply others, but i doubt with the time involved it would be very profitable.
Ordering a guitar, unboxing, removing the pickguard, swap the pickups, rewire everything, boxing the guitar again, dropping it of at the postoffice and this all for what, 150 dollars profit if the store doesn't notice?

No they don't. My American Hot-rod tele doesn't have a serial number on the neck. Even if some of the standard American Fenders do, they don't have serial numbers on the bodies or pickups. They don't even have Fender logo's anywhere. Teles have serial numbers on the pickup plate.

I can swap pickups in under 30 mins. You don't need rewiring.

**waltf** · 03-27-2021, 09:29 AM

Originally Posted by Tal_175

I was assuming you were responding to the OP. But maybe you were making a different point all togeher.

No they don't. My American Hot-rod tele doesn't have a serial number on the neck. Even if some of the standard American Fenders do, they don't have serial numbers on the bodies or pickups. They don't even have Fender logo's anywhere. Teles have serial numbers on the pickup plate.

Fender American Vintage 52 Hot Rod Telecaster Neck 52 RI | | Reverb
Sure?