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Hi, I'm really (desperately) undecided on which guitar choose for a really old and classic style jazz sound (Wes Montgomery/Joe Pass tone). I'm undecided between an used Epiphone Broadway Peerless (2003) and an Eastman AR371CE (unavailable in Europe at the moment). Now I have Gretsch G2420T that is an hollowbody guitar, good for clean and jazz tones, but not so good as a "real" jazz guitar. So my aim is to get at an affordable price a jazz guitar that has possibly 17 inches of width (at leat 16 inches) in a similar shape of an ES-175/L-5 CES with only set in pickups. I was looking also for aria pro II pE180 but I think it's sold now. If you know other guitars matching these requirements, let me know please. Thanks.
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03-30-2021 06:13 AM
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The Broadway is ok, it's L5 sized. I had one, a 2004 I think, the neck was fatter than I like, but typical for that Gibson style.
The pickups were mediocre, the switch tends to go bad, and the hardware tarnishes. But it's a good intermediate guitar, they go for about 6-800 USD. There's an Epiphone ES-175 copy, too, and the newer ones have upgraded pickups. I preferred the Joe Pass Emperor, though I had the same issues with the electronics as the Broadway.
I think the D'Angelico's are better quality.
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Well, if the Eastman isn't available in Europe at this time, that should make the decision easy
An L5 and a 175 are different guitars in shape, construction, and tone. I'm not quite sure but I think that you won't get a 175 type guitar in 16" size, and definitely not in 17" size. In your price range and with the sound you have in mind, the Epiphone Joe Pass is an obvious choice and ticks all the boxes. Personally, I'd consider the Epiphone Broadway since this has a full 17 inches, and I'd prefer the longer scale. Ibanez makes decent guitars, too. With any of these, it's a good idea to try them out since I found the quality to be somewhat uneven. I remember playing two Joe Pass models side by side that differed only in colour. One was good, the other was very good. Go figure.
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Thanks guys, I think you're right. But I don't know why but I don't really like the epiphone emperor joe pass aesthetically. I was seriously considering getting an aria pro pe 180 as my first jazz guitar. I'm really in love with the design and the perfect shape of the L-5 CES with those 17 inches. I also checked Ibanez, but it doesn't inspire me. The only ones that inspired me are the "175-shaped" Eastman. Do you think that an Eastman AR371CE is still much better than an Epiphone Broadway Peerless (2003)?
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imo there is no need to buy blind. educate yourself. thomann will happily send you their archtops for a 30 days evaluation period. if i were in the market in the under 1500 euro price range i'd order a loar, a godin, an ibanez GB10 (basically a mini L5 despite the floater), a guild and maybe a stanford, test them against each other and see if there is one i like.
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Yes, you're right, but I'm from Italy and Thomann IT doesn't have any archtop in this price range that I like.
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The ES-175 is a 16" guitar, as are all the look-alikes I'm aware of. Here are some ideas for guitars that look like 175's (more or less) in this price range. Most of these aren't made anymore, but are fairly common used online. Note that not all really sound like a 175, but that's an argument for another day:
- Peerless Gigmaster Jazz (SFAIK, still made)
- Ibanez AKJV90, AKJV95D, AKJ95, LGB30 (these are all fairly recent models; out of these, I think only the LGB30 is still made, but used examples of the others seem plentiful).
- Ibanez FA100 (their 1980s 175 copy; they pop on reverb occasionally in this price range)
- Assorted '70s Japanese 175 copies (do a search here for "175 Clone" and similar terms to get a sense of the topic; there are lots of threads/posts here; models include Aria EA 650 and Ibanez 2355; the Ibanez might be more expensive).
- Eastman AR371/2 -- you said it's not available where you are, but it's widely available online, and used ones are well under $1000, so it might be worth looking further.
- ES 175 copies from Tokai, Edwards, Burny (there are made-in-China versions in this price range)
- Epiphone ES175 Premium (specifically the "Premium" version)
- Epiphone "Zephyr Regent Reissure" (a model that's not actually a resissue of anything and looks and sounds a lot lie a 175)
No recommendations for 17" guitars (I don't like 'em that big). Note that a 175 and an L5 are pretty different from each other. If you don't understand the differences (especially the basic difference in sound between a carved and a laminated top), it's probably not a good idea to buy another guitar yet. Better to try a as many as you can, both carved and laminated, and get a sense of which type of sound appeals to you more.
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
Originally Posted by John A.
Thanks man for these precious names. I just found a seller from Netherlands on Reverb that give me the price of 1100€ for Eastman AR372CE. I have also looked for the Ibanez copy of ES175 and I found an italian seller which gives me that guitar (Aria EA650) for 1200 euros. Do you have any general recommendation on which one to choose? Anyway don't you have any L-5 clone for me (just for looking further to these clones)?
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If it'd in really good shape, the Aria Pro II PE180 is a splendid guitar. It's someone between the L5ces and the tal Farlow in tone, since it has the former's big body and long scale, but the latter's laminated construction. The PE180 comes with really good pickups too. I own one and love it. I also have the Epiphone Broadway and it's a solid guitar too. Neck is slimmer than the Aria. Pickup replacement can be done, but the switch can be unreliable. Still, I enjoy mine very much. I also have the L5ces to compare them to. Originally Posted by TOPGUN860
The Epiphone ES175 "Premium" is a very nice guitar in the 16" ES175 class. I had one and had zero complaints, zero modifications. It was superb. I have the Gibson to compare it to, and it stood up very well.
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Originally Posted by TOPGUN860
If it were me, I would get the Broadway and replace the electronics: switch - Switchcraft; pickups - '57 Classics. Sadowsky sells intonated wooden bridges in sets - one for Plain G, and one for wound. You will have a pro-level instrument that won't let you down on the bandstand or in the studio.
If you run across an Epi Premium, take it!
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Thanks for the advice, do you know someone that has the Aria Pro II PE180 in nice conditions? Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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So did you prefer the Epiphone instead of Eastman? I heard on youtube that Eastman has a more interesting sound than the Epiphone which sounded to me "too electric". The Eastman was really nice and with a more "solid" sound. That's why I don't like so much these Epiphones in the sound. Eastman AR372 could be better or not? Originally Posted by citizenk74
If it were me, I would get the Broadway and replace the electronics: switch - Switchcraft; pickups - '57 Classics. Sadowsky sells intonated wooden bridges in sets - one for Plain G, and one for wound. You will have a pro-level instrument that won't let you down on the bandstand or in the studio.
If you run across an Epi Premium, take it!
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You are the only person who can make this judgment. We can give you our impressions, but nobody here can tell you if you'd like the Eastman more than the Epiphone if it depends on such subtle issues as "how electric" a guitar with humbucking magnetic pickups played through an amplifier sounds. That's a shade of nuance that only you can discern for your own taste. Originally Posted by TOPGUN860
Actually much of the tone does turn on the pickups. I love Gibson Classic 57s, but I also like the Seymour Duncan Seth Lover. In my Epiphone Broadway, though, I installed a Stewart-MacDonald Parson Street PAF, a very inexpensive pickup, and I love the way it sounds. But I enjoy the electric-archtop tone, so it might not be right for you.
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I have an Eastman AR 372 CE and I'm really happy with it - great workmanship and excellent value.
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My sense is that the Ibanez and Aria 175 copies from the 70s are very similar in quality. I think (from reading, not from direct experience playing them) that the Ibanez necks based on the skinny Gibson mid-60s necks with 1- 10/16" nuts, and the Aria necks are somewhat fatter with a 1-11/16" nut (which appeals to me more). I think the choice mainly comes down to that. Sorry, I really haven't looked into 17" guitars. I did look pretty deeply into 16" guitars, and wound up with a Seventy-Seven Hawk Jazz within your price range, but I got lucky with the price, and I doubt you'd find one right now. Originally Posted by TOPGUN860
John
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this is a really nice listing! I'd suggest the Epiphone Zephyr Regent Reissue is kind of a "Poor Player's ES165" Originally Posted by John A.
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I have no personal experience with Eastmans. By all accounts they are very well-crafted instruments. I wouldn't trade my Emperor Regent for anything; I almost got its brother instrument, the Broadway, but when I got to the store to make the deal, it had been sent back with a switch problem, so I went for the EER. A colleague of mine had a Broadway and it sounded great. I consider the guitar, per se, to be the neck and body. Hardware (tuners, bridges, electronics) is hardware, and upgradable. Wood is the soul of the instrument. The neck on my EER is the third nicest I have ever played. Originally Posted by TOPGUN860
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You may want to get in touch with Liberty-Music in Neustadt, Germany (liberty-music.de). Ernst Weinbach is in the process of selling the entire business and tries to reduce the inventory to make it less expensive for the buyer. There may be a few Eastmans in stock, and Ernst has hinted at discounting.The website is not necessarily up-to-date, so it's best to shoot an e-mail enquiry to liberty-music@gmx.net. Say hi from Markku to break the ice.
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The only person, other than Wes, that I've heard nail his sound was doing it on an L5.
I think part of the magic is the scale length. The L5 is 25.5. The 175 is 24.75 (I might be slightly off on these numbers). The point is that the 175 is a shorter scale instrument. I think that matters if you're trying to get Wes' tone.
I'm confident that there are other factors as well and that all 25.5 guitars aren't equal in their ability to get Wes' tone. I don't know anything about that part of it and will leave it to others.
Wes, as you know, didn't use a pick. He used a callus on his thumb. That probably matters too. Not just thumb, but the callus.
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Thanks for the answer, how could you describe the tone of this guitar? Solid, warm...? Near to the Gibson ES175 Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Thanks for the reply man. I think I will check more the Eastman AR372CE, from the moment that a store from Netherlands has it at a very nice price, so I think I will go for a "new" guitar rather than used. Originally Posted by John A.
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I totally agree. Originally Posted by citizenk74
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Exactly. You're right, but this is an ocean of possibilities. Anyway I think that with the right eq and right "soul" (wood and electronics) of guitar I can get the Wes Tone same, even with my thumb. Anyway I have the callus too on the thumb but in a different spot ahhaha Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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It looks like you are narrowing down your options based on the excellent recommendations provided.
Another consideration would be an Ibanez AF200. It's a scaled down version of the L5, and a less bling version of Ibanez's GB200.
I also like the Heritage H-575. They are all solid wood construction, so both their acoustic and electric tones are very nice for a 16" body sized archtop. On the used market they can be a real bargain, but may be rare in your area.
Good hunting!
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Never played a Gibson 175 so can't compare. The Eastman's acoustic tone is bright and clear yet warm which translates nicely into its electric sound. There's several threads here about this model - a quick search will bring up more information. Originally Posted by TOPGUN860
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