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Do you routinely use a lubricant / graphite with archtop guitar ebony / rosewood string slots? If so what do you use and how often? After being quite annoyed by a sticking 3rd string on an Eastman guitar I just applied some pencil lead (not sure if it's really lead) from a mechanical pencil I had handy and think it helped. Seems when I have a sticking string it's always the G string that is most problematic. I was thinking the slot might be too narrow, but I am thinking that would be unlikely as that .020 string is narrower and probably smoother than most 3rd strings. (The wrap feels reasonably smooth to me.)
I see a lot of products advertised for sticking strings, but question if any are suitable for use with rosewood / ebony.
Experience with Eastman rosewood / ebony bridges and string sticking?
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06-27-2021 11:07 AM
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Is there something about your setup that leads you to believe the problem lies with the bridge?
More likely it has to do with the nut. I can’t say I’ve ever heard of that kind of problem on a wooden bridge saddle, or any other kind of saddle for that matter.
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When tuning up and the sticking string suddenly becomes free to move, I always hear the noise coming from the tailpiece. However, perhaps that is not a reliable indicator. Unfortunately I just lubricated the string at both the bridge and the nut slot at the same time. From a diagnostic point of view, I should have only done one at a time.
Originally Posted by telephone
FYI, Last year I added a String Butler to that guitar. Can't say I noticed any real change. So I have a straight pull through the nut now. (Slots in the nut are not angled)
Danielle
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One of the things I do with a string/nut slot in question is to tune up to pitch then press down on the string behind the nut. If it stays sharp when you let go, you have some binding happening.
String butler won't help much if your slots are too narrow.
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Just thinking same procedure should work for checking bridge slots by pressing down on the string between the bridge and the tailpiece. Originally Posted by telephone
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Sure, try both. Unless the string is sitting in a mighty deep slot at the bridge, I still maintain the problem lies at the nut. A pic of the saddle would help.
If it does turn out to be the saddle, the best course of action would be to have the slot addressed with proper filing. Lubing up something that generally never gets lubed is approaching it from the wrong angle. Just my opinion, of course.
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Saddle photo: Originally Posted by telephone
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Did you try pressing behind the nut or saddle? From the looks of it I’m still convinced the problem lies with the nut.
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I tried that at both the nut and bridge and was not able to detect a problem. I think the graphite from my mechanical pencil took care of the problem for the time being at least on that guitar. Next time I notice the problem, I will do that test. Later today, I will try that on some other archtop guitars I have here. Originally Posted by telephone
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Well then, play on!
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Thinking about this, if the string was moving freely in the nut, I should hear the pitch change even if the string was stuck in the bridge slot (supporting your statement above.) Originally Posted by telephone
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The string jumps at the nut, and the sound is transferred up the string to the bridge, and you hear it as coming from there, but I too think it's coming from the nut. There isn't enough of a slot showing in the photo to bind the string at the saddle. I would bet that the nut slot needs to be widened ever so slightly. It might be fine near the top of the nut, but taper as it goes down into the nut and binds at the bottom. That's all too common, IME.
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BTW, pencil lead does not contain the element lead, except in accidental trace amounts. It's actually graphite and binders, most often clay. The properties of graphite are what make it useful for marking paper and lubricating guitar nut slots.
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I have had this with almost every guitar I have ever had. Wide slots, skinny slots, bridges with tailpieces, toploaders, string-thru, straight-pull headstocks, angled-pull headstocks, roundwounds, flatwounds, classical... Making sure there is no frank pinching or burrs in the slots, using graphite minimizes but doesn't eliminate IME.
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Kinda of an aside, when I was in boy scouts (yes in the 60s) doing pinewood derby, there was one kid who had a very nerdy bow-tied engineering father, and he brought this secret spay for his kid's axles. The kid was innocently naive and said loudly, "Dad, spray everyone's with it!" The father grumped because he knew his graphite spray what was made his kid's car win.
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The windings on the G string are very small, and very small irregularities in the slots can cause problems. The bottoms of the slots need to be very smooth, and there might be file marks there. Some very fine sandpaper, 800 grit or finer, gently used in the slots, can sometimes make a difference. This can happen at either end, and the wood grain in the saddle can affect it to some degree. The bottoms of the slots in the nut and bridge should be polished well.
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That sounds good and does not sound too invasive. I was thinking with flatwound strings there is not much abrasion from the string itself. I was thinking the 3rd string slot in most archtop guitar nuts are probably grooved from the factory for either a 22 or 24 gauge round wound string. Not sure what happens where we put in a smooth 20 gauge flatwound string. Originally Posted by sgosnell
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That might not be the issue, I'm just spitballing here, without being able to see and touch the guitar. I have no idea what size the slots are, I've just seen that happen before, and it generally affects the G more than the others because of the size of the windings and the tension on the string, which is usually higher than the other strings. But it depends on the windings and the diameter, of course. Polishing the slots can't hurt, unless you're very ham-handed. Widening the slot is likely the real answer, but it takes more care and experience. Good luck, however you approach it.
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It‘s the nut for sure and a close up would be helpful.
A professional slotted nut is made of highgrade material and absolutely smooth. The string should contact the nut only at a small point (similar to a fret crown) and must be angled towards the tuners. You can use a modern lubricant like „Big Bends sauce“, but a well finished nut needs nothing (made of Tusq or Bone).
By the way:
The nut is often less noticed but it‘s got a big influence to your tone and playing. The nut slots should be as deep as possible to get best intonation on the first frets.
Check that sucker!
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I checked my luthier expenditure records and see that I have never paid to have any work done on this guitar. I do recall a few luthiers looked at this guitar and advised no work was required. However, I think they just checked the nut groove string height without actually checking the groove angle and width. This guitar was a little odd for a new guitar, as most new guitars I have received came with high nut grooves that obviously required work for good setup. I happened to have a bottle of Kyser String Cleaner, that seems to have taken care of the problem for now. Right now I have a "String Butler" on that guitar with straight perpendicular grooves in the nut. I am thinking of keeping the String Butler, as without it that guitar has interference between tuner posts and other strings. I might wait until fall when humidity levels are closer to ideal before having any work on this guitar. Originally Posted by Stefan Eff
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Unfortunately, the nut is not visible in that pic.
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