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When did Fender stop using Point to point hand wired circuits and start using the cheaper modern circuit boards?
Doug
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08-31-2021 12:46 AM
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1986. The last hand-wired amps were those introduced by Paul Rivera from 1982: Princeton Reverb II, Deluxe Reverb II, Concert II, Twin Reverb II, Champ II, Super Champ, Bassman 20.
Schematics here
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Plus those designed by Ed Jahn like the Fender 75 combo and head.
Originally Posted by Litterick
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That means that Vintage 47 amps are a real bargain as far as getting a hand wired amp in today's world. Current Fender hand wired and Swart hand wired cost 2-3x as much!
Granted the Vintage 47 are octal amps, but they produce a great sound.
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And the Vibro-King Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Yes but that's a Custom Shop amp like the handwired Deluxe Reverb, Tweed Champ and '57 Deluxe... Originally Posted by John A.
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"Custom shop" in Fender's case is branding for higher end stuff not an indicator that an item was custom made. The VK was mass produced in a factory, and they sold a lot of them. Originally Posted by TOMMO
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That's right but (and I'm not trying to start an argument here): it's a separate line of amps (hardwired vs.pc) while back in the day all Fender amps were hardwired before they changed to pc boards.... Originally Posted by John A.
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In the amp-building world "point-to-point" means a build that uses no circuit board at all. Instead P2P amps make all of circuit connections directly between components using the leads of those components themselves and wire. I've never built that way but here is someone else's example: Originally Posted by Doug B
In contrast, the classic Fender builds used "tag board with eyelets." Here's one of my earlier efforts:
Personally I prefer "turret board" construction because there's more space to put stuff than with a crowded eyelet. Here's my later build of the same amp using turrets instead of tag/eyelets:
It's still far from pro work but you can see that it's a step toward neater.
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Does this stuff affect the sound? Basically no. Poor layout can increase noise and hum but any of the three methods can be laid-out poorly if the builder is thoughtless or unlucky. Aside from that there is no way to turn on an amp, plug in and say, "That one is point-to-point."
We now return you to JG.be
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Maybe a better way to look at the subject is that Fender switched mainly to PCB construction in 1986 (or whatever the year was), but has continued to build some "PTP" (technically, eyelet board) amps as premium limited-edition models. Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Originally Posted by John A.
It also gives Fender the chance to charge more for a premium model: A Fender 68 Reverb Silverface costs about $1400 Cdn. A Fender 62 Princeton Chris Stapleton hand wired costs about $2800 Cdn. Is it a better amp? Hmmm...
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Yessir! Ed Jahn and Paul Rivera were an awesome team back in the day. Originally Posted by Litterick
I'm glad Fender's Custom Shop has released the '57 Custom series a few years back. Great hand wired, point to point remakes of iconic amps.
https://www.fender.com/en-US/57-custom-series
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I believe most of the Fender circuits used, were from a Tube Book supplied by RCA, GE, etc. They were available for free so manufactuor individuals would buy their tubes.
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SamSherry,
Your work looks good to me.
I dunno how they're made but I'll vouch for Rivera-era Fender amps,
I'm lucky to have two (fortunate accident.)
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Remember tube-testers and tube inventories at the Supermarket? Originally Posted by jads57
I believe most of the Fender circuits used, were from a Tube Book supplied by RCA, GE, etc. They were available for free so manufactuor individuals would buy their tubes.
Also from this period: polio cripples, lynchings, napalm, fifty-dollar cars, Elvis, Jerry Lee and so forth.
Lately we're all pretty much limited to 'time travel.'
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I remember Tube Testers at the bigger drug store chains of yesteryear.
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All guitar amps are hand wired. I have not seen a robot wired amp. Looks like these people are using their hands to wire these amps. Though maybe farther down the line they are using their feet and teeth...
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Of course, the rarest and most expensive guitar amplifiers ever sold use printed circuit boards....
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Doesn't NASA send printed circuits out to Pluto & the like?
Can't be all bad, but who could afford a 'NASA Reverb?'
"Out of this World Tones!"
Only one wee dram at a time.
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There are cheap circuit board amps and quality amps that use circuit boards.
My experience is that Fender circuit board amps are not the same quality as Mesa circuit board amps.
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I don't worry about how the amp circuit is wired, but I do care how the hardware on the faceplates, i.e, jacks, pots, switches, is connected to the circuit board. They should be connected by leads, short pieces of flexible wire that soak up all the punishment without flinching.
A lot of amps have those items soldered into the board. That creates a substantial risk that ordinary use will, over time, produce enough mechanical stress on the solder joints that they will crack. Often, the result is crackling or other noise when you touch the hardware. The solution is to reheat the offending solder joints. Thinking back, I can't recall ever having had any other kind of problem with printed circuits in a guitar amp.
Perhaps some of the amp guys will know, but it's my impression that you can fix a board with a bad component. There's a special soldering iron that has a solder remover built in (Radio Shack item back in the day). So, it's not that tough. But, flimsy boards can crack and I think that's hard to fix. And, if you can patch it up, it's still flimsy.
That said, I'd be surprised if my current favorite Little Jazz doesn't have the hardware soldered into the board. Anybody know?
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I have heard that the Little Jazz is as beautiful inside as out. I tried to find a photograph to prove this claim, but without success. I did find a very large photo of the circuit board of a DV Mark Multiamp, included in a rave review: "Once the lid is off the quality build inside is quite honestly breath-taking and I have never seen a nicer or more tidy build than was inside this DV-Mark Multiamp."
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There was a thread a while back where someone dissected his Little Jazz:
DV Mark Little Jazz - Disassembly
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