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IMO a new guitar sold at full price should be without flaws and return cost disputes should be hypothetical. A guitar with such malfunctions passing QA is disqualifying the manufacturer. At least it was immediately obvious from the start. If not they buyer might have been stuck with a guitar facing a very expensive repair after run out of the warranty.
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12-13-2021 08:18 PM
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they're not paying 1/2 the costs. They are saddling me with 100% of the shipping. But yeah, I'm actually planning on making a trip to NYC when covid is "over" and resigning myself to paying 25% more for an item in order to play it in person. However, from what I can see online, the NYC shops don't have the inventory they once did so it may be a losing proposition...
Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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Originally Posted by jzucker
I agree. Get most of your money returned just to end this. Because initially it sounds as if they didn't want to give you a refund, but make you take another guitar while they keep your $2600.
Shipping one way would be somewhat acceptable, I suppose, but both ways for a faulty product tells me this company is to be avoided. And they have your money.
It should be obvious that many dealers never open the box. It is simply a carton which contains a product that they easily ship to another destination for a received a payment. They are not looking at the guitar.
Inquiring about a Ibanez LGBxxx at one of the popular on-line dealers, I asked about the weight. They (sales person?) confirmed that it's in a warehouse ready to be shipped, they don't open the box.
I hope you get your money returned without any more problems, Jack.
And Ibanez corporation is shortsighted and stupid for treating you that way.
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I haven't seen any higher end new Ibanez archtops or semis in a NYC shop in many years (if that's what you're looking for). Recently, Sam Ash and Guitar Center are pretty bare, but even before pandemic supply problems hit all they had was the the Artcore level stuff (if that). For used/Vintage archtops and semis there's some inventory in the independent shops (e.g., Rudy's, Retrofrets, Crandall, Rivington), but NYC is no different from the rest of the country for new stuff anymore. Originally Posted by jzucker
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Not looking for ibanez but (previously) I had thought that ibanez was more consistent and at least buying new I would get better support. I now know better, lol. If I made a trip to NY it would be to look for a 175 but since most of the NYC stores have their inventory online, I can see that there are few 175s in shops in NYC...I found what looks like a great 175 on reverb but it's $4k which seems a tad high and it seems like yet another expensive experiment... Originally Posted by John A.
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If you used a credit card, once you receive your monthly statement, call your credit card company and explain the situation. I've gotten great results (and nearly instant resolution) for very similar problems.
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Alas, the days of there being a wall full of archtops in each of several spots all within walking distance or short train rides of each other are over. I'd bet there are at most a half a dozen 175's in all the shops in the city combined, if that. Not that I'd discourage people from coming for a visit, but there's far greater inventory and convenience online (tempered by the risk of having to buy without trying first). No easy answer, except maybe to get something you like and never let it go, which is obviously how you roll Originally Posted by jzucker
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good luck on your search Jack
I have bought so many great Ibanez - whether they are used or new with zero problems.
You are incredibly finicky and picky / if what made you choose to buy from that merchant was the low price then make them take it back or have your credit card company cancel the charge against your card. As far as I can see the rub you have here is that they are insisting on you paying the return shipping charge that’s essentially a restocking fee based at the price of the guitar you’re talking about.
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As I've mentioned several times, they are charging me shipping both ways, not just the return shipping. And no, i'm not finicky for wanting a guitar that has a functioning truss-rod and then wanting a full refund when a new guitar doesn't function properly. If I was returning it because a string broke or the action needed adjustment you'd have a point but it's not finicky to want a full refund for a broken guitar. SMH! Originally Posted by Crm114
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Based on the price point of the guitar it’s a 10 or 15 percent restocking fee. When you made the purchase did you study what their return policy fully is ??
it sounds to me you like you got an older guitar that hung on the wall for a long time I still stand by how stringent the Ibanez quality control process is and find it really hard to believe that you’re having so much trouble with the guitar that is supposedly new.
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Yes I did. Originally Posted by Crm114
General Terms. Items must be returned in original, as-shipped condition with all original packaging and no signs of use. Buyer assumes responsibility for all return shipping costs unless the item was not received as described.
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And the item was not received in the condition that was described, so under their own terms the seller should pay return shipping.
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You think that's bad! The UK has literally run out of good or interesting archtops to buy. This has been going on for roughly 2 years now. Originally Posted by John A.
Alas, the days of there being a wall full of archtops in each of several spots all within walking distance or short train rides of each other are over. I'd bet there are at most a half a dozen 175's in all the shops in the city combined, if that. Not that I'd discourage people from coming for a visit, but there's far greater inventory and convenience online (tempered by the risk of having to buy without trying first). No easy answer, except maybe to get something you like and never let it go, which is obviously how you roll
I few things have come up but you could count them on one hand.
It's as if all the collectable stuff has been bought and stuffed away or shipped out. There was a sudden rush of stuff for a couple of months and I bought almost all fo it. For the last 2 months; nothing!
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It's funny that so many people are emphatic about trying before you buy but where can I try a westville, ibanez LGB300, AF200, AS200, Gibson 175, etc? The most expensive ibanez in any of the local stores are the artcore guitars. There are some shops which stock the eastmans and there are some expensive PRS and Gibson guitars but archtop guitars aren't hanging up around here and as John A said, even in NY it's a rarity. If you look at the stock list of rudy's, lark street, etc., there aren't a lot of gibsons or ibanez guitars in the $5k range...Plus, we're in the middle of a pandemic so I ain't traveling anywhere...
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Did you also see my post where the most expensive left handed guitar they make had zero fretwork done and an obviously too high nut? Originally Posted by Crm114
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I'm not sure if "expensive gibsons" is a meaningful yardstick. Even their custom shop instruments are well known to have amateurish setups. I once bought a Tal Farlow where the distance between the G & B strings was so clearly close together that you didn't even need to measure it to see something was wrong. Disappointing that something like that could get through their quality gates but clearly - at least in the late '90s - they didn't have one. Maybe it's better now but my repairman has many horror stories of les pauls and 335s with extremely inconsistent neck angle glue jobs - even recent ones... Originally Posted by Lobomov
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seventy seven quality blows away gibson. Absolutely no comparison. And it's probably better than even the high end ibanez. The only reason I'm not playing seventy seven anymore is because of contractual disagreement I had with them. Otherwise, in terms of tone, quality and feel they are exceptional and a step above most of what else is out there. Originally Posted by Lobomov
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I'm on J's side. Quality control is THE most important issue for manufacturers, large and small. It is what keeps old customers and creates new ones. Retailers, on the other hand, have no obligation to correct poor manufacturing defects and should, then, not carry those offending brands since it tarnishes their reputation--especially in an online world. It is totally unacceptable that Ibanez doesn't 1.) replace/repair the instrument with no extra charges(shipping) or 2.) offer a full refund including return of shipping both ways. It was not the buyers fault, who in good faith, purchased the guitar with the expectation that the instrument was in new, playable condition without defects or serious alterations needed. Ibanez would surely loose in litigation however, your time and money spent would be disproportionate to your reward and that's what inscrutable people count on in their business model. Good luck, J. The times are a changin'!
Marinero
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I don't believe the AS2000 has been out long enough for a lot of dealers to have even gotten them yet Mike. They just discontinued the AS200 recently. I've only ever had a single problem with a Japanese Ibanez myself (on a 6 year old guitar in '88), and I've been playing them almost exclusively since '80. Originally Posted by Crm114
That said, a dealer should always inspect the instrument you purchase from them. I buy my Ibanezes from Rich @ IbanezRules, and if he gets a rare dud he sends it back and gets that sorted with the distributor and you, the customer, never hears a word about it (and certainly never sees that guitar). If you buy a new guitar from a dealer and it has issues, that dealer isn't worth your business ever again, IMHO.
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There is a good question here: who is taking responsibility for guitars that are not built correctly. I come across problems more then I would think is acceptable. Frets that are not leveled, necks that warp after a number of months, are the two common problems that I have come across.
What really seems wrong, is when a dealer knows the guitar has problems because it was returned, and then goes on to sell to the next person. That seems scummy to me. When money becomes everything what is left?
Also the price is no guarantee that the guitar will not have problems. I have seen these problems on higher priced guitars.
I really want to buy an AS2000, but I am having second thoughts. I do not want to buy and then have to return the guitar. I do not want to have to pay for some buyer insurance, in case the neck warps later. I do not want deal with sending a guitar back to the dealer.
I think I will just be happy with my guitars and skip having a specific type of jazz guitar. I can do enough with what I have. I am not sure anyone will really care except for me anyway.
Even on an low priced guitar 250$+ that is not acceptable.
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Sure, but what about when the frets feel like sandpaper as well? Originally Posted by Lobomov
Defend them all you like, but their QC is in need of improvement.
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Not disagreeing but I found the Ibanez AF200 which is priced comparatively to the Seventy Seven Hawk STD MIJ to be a far more deluxe guitar. Fit was the same but the finish, binding, hardware, woods etc.. were superior on the Ibanez. Originally Posted by jzucker
Of course Ibanez is able to lower costs based on economy of scale so it's not a diss on Seventy Seven that they can't compete around the £2000 price range.
When it gets up to £3k I can see 77 being able to close the gap.
In regards to Gibson, it often feels like there is no quality control.
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The hawk standard I had was relatively equivalent to the 3 AF200s I have owned. The Hawk jazz is about on on the level of the signature model ibanez guitars. Maybe a little better. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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I think it's hard to judge right now because the markets are so distorted by the pandemic, and there's so little supply of these guitars. But IIRC, a couple of years ago when they were still being made the Hawk Jazz was cheaper new than the AF200 (at least as listed in the US), but I could be remembering wrong. Used, all of guitars we're talking about are really scarce so the market is even more difficult to analyze. But FWIW, when I bought my Hawk Jazz about a year ago I paid $1500, and there were no used AF200's in the US for less than $2k. Right now, I don't really know what's going. If people are getting £3k for them, wow. Originally Posted by ArchtopHeaven
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One of the annoying things about primarily Japanese, domestic focused companies, is knowing what is what. Originally Posted by John A.
The Hawk STD and Hawk are not the same model. The Hawk STD is a thin-line Guild SF2 rip off (or there abouts) and retails for around £2000 in the UK, the same price as the Ibanez AF200.
The Hawk Deep is a higher end guitar (herringbone binding), that I thought retails for around $2500? If you paid $1500 for a new Hawk STD or a Hawk Deep, then good for you.
A US based member was selling a used Hawk deep, for $1650 only recently.
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