NGD - Meet Gumby (7 string)

[Zigracer]

Picked up this Eastman Jazz Elite 7 yesterday at Guitars 'N Jazz in Summit, NJ. First of all, what a hoot - for those of you who haven't been there, the store is inside a pharmacy. My mind's eye expectation based on their fabulous website photos was just so different. Great place. I spent about 2 1/2 hours there trying a few different Eastmans and being a pain in the ass. Marc was very accommodating. I wish someone had video running of the first 45 minutes I was there. It was like I had never played guitar in my life (not that I'm any good anyway). The fretboard looked like I was trying to read a foreign language. Things went okay and became fun after I got my bearings. I tried a few of the Jazz Elites, including one with a set in humbucker, which they apparently modify right there at Guitars 'N Jazz. I also tried the AR 810 7CE, which is only a bit more money and has a deeper body. I generally prefer deep archtops, but settled on the Jazz Elite. Just felt a little more comfortable in my hands and had fretboard inlays, which was comforting to me as a 7 string newbie. Although strangely enough I found my bearings by mostly not looking at the fretboard. Although the guitar was fairly well set up, I had to give it a quick intonation adjustment on the bass side when I got it home last night. I'll do a better job today.

Questions for you folks who play 7s: I was able to play a lot of jazz chord voicings while fingerpicking, but had difficulty muting the E string on certain chords while strumming with a pick. When playing chords that have the root on the normal A string on the six string, I was putting the root on the low A on the 7th string, but was having a difficulty muting the E string and playing the rest of the chord. Can anyone share or point me to a good chord chart for the jazz 7? Although I do play some chord melody, my gigs are primarily me singing and comping to support my singing. I watch John Pizzarelli do this all the time, but I can't quite dissect what he's doing. I believe he only primarily uses a few 7 string chord formations, but where do I find out? Also, for those of you who play 7 strings, what are YOUR favorite choices for strings. I like the TI GB flats on my Benedetto Bravo Deluxe and Chromes on my Ibanez GB 10. I have a Gretsch G400 Synchromatic that does great with round wounds. I've perused the different options available for a long time. The tape wounds look interesting, but I don't know. Thank you! Zig

[citizenk74]

Beautiful guitar! Congratulations, and play it in good health!

[Oscar67]

That’s a real beauty! Congrats! I’ve been tempted by Eastman’s 7 string models, but I have a hard enough time getting anything decent out of 6 strings. And I tend to use my thumb a lot for bass notes. Very nice guitars though.

[Stringswinger]

Congrats, may she inspire your playing for many years to come.

A few years back, I tried a few 7 string guitars (had 4 of them) and even one 8 string guitar. I gave it up after deciding that I am plenty challenged by 6 strings and that going back and forth simply does not work.

I found that 5th string root forms worked well playing the root on the low A, but you have to use one of the other fingers to mute the 6th string, just as you would on a 6 string guitar (The thumb can be handy in this instance). What was trickier for me was playing 6th string root chord shapes and not hitting the low A (The finger grabbing the 6th string root also has to mute the 7th string). It takes time to get used to it, but you can adapt. Good luck!

[Zigracer]

Congrats, may she inspire your playing for many years to come.

A few years back, I tried a few 7 string guitars (had 4 of them) and even one 8 string guitar. I gave it up after deciding that I am plenty challenged by 6 strings and that going back and forth simply does not work.

I found that 5th string root forms worked well playing the root on the low A, but you have to use one of the other fingers to mute the 6th string, just as you would on a 6 string guitar (The thumb can be handy in this instance). What was trickier for me was playing 6th string root chord shapes and not hitting the low A (The finger grabbing the 6th string root also has to mute the 7th string). It takes time to get used to it, but you can adapt. Good luck!

Oooh - I'm plenty challenged by six strings as well. Just always wanted to see if I could make one of these things work at "my level." What Guitars N'Jazz has left are the few new one left to be found as Eastman has stopped manufacturing the sevens, because they are such a small part of the market. There are very few affordable seven string archtops available used as well. So I figured I'd sell some other firewood and go after it.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

I thought *this* was Gumby, dammit!

[ARGewirtz]

Zig,
Congrats on the new guitar, very nice.

Sorry but I can’t help you with answers to your questions about playing a 7-string but I am familiar with Guitars N Jazz. I live about a half-hour’s drive from the store and will likely be there sometime this week. Marc takes care of the repairs on my guitars and I’ve been trading emails with him this morning about selling one of my guitars that I don’t use.

The store definitely takes you by surprise the first time. I’m not sure that being able to fill a prescription, pick up some Tylenol, and buy an archtop is what people usually think of when they talk about one-stop shopping but it’s a great place with a great inventory of jazz gear that you won’t find in many other places.

As for strings, last time I was in the store looking for new strings to try out Marc told me that their Guitars N Jazz strings are actually Newtone strings in GNJ packaging, if you want to give them a try.
Andrew

[jads57]

Okay where’s Pokey?

[Zigracer]

Zig,
Congrats on the new guitar, very nice.

Sorry but I can’t help you with answers to your questions about playing a 7-string but I am familiar with Guitars N Jazz. I live about a half-hour’s drive from the store and will likely be there sometime this week. Marc takes care of the repairs on my guitars and I’ve been trading emails with him this morning about selling one of my guitars that I don’t use.

The store definitely takes you by surprise the first time. I’m not sure that being able to fill a prescription, pick up some Tylenol, and buy an archtop is what people usually think of when they talk about one-stop shopping but it’s a great place with a great inventory of jazz gear that you won’t find in many other places.

As for strings, last time I was in the store looking for new strings to try out Marc told me that their Guitars N Jazz strings are actually Newtone strings in GNJ packaging, if you want to give them a try.
Andrew

Hi Andrew, Thank you. Marc actually gave me a set of those strings and I will try them.

[Jimmy blue note]

I love that place. I did get a thin body 7 that was built just for Guitars N Jazz but this is the one I'm currently playing, which I got from Jack Pezanelli, one of the greatest chord melodicists ever. It's a real gem and better than anything else I have.
Eastmans have a notably wider neck than most guitars, and the 7 was a issue in that respect. I play low B and I play linear and chordal down there; that's why I need it in 4ths.
I avoided this 7 for a long time because of that. It didn't feel like a fast neck, but more like a classical because of this spacing.
Then I cut a new nut, spaced it narrower, closer to the Gibson type spacing I'm used to and even leveled and recut the bridge saddle spacing, centred it on the fingerboard and it's now my go to guitar along with my custom 15".
Re-spacing the strings was a game changer for me.
Just my $.02


By the way I used a single .068 for the low B and a set of Labella Roller wound .012's which the have DISCONTINUED!!!!!
I play fingerstyle so I like the way non-flatwounds bring out the acoustic attack and roller wounds and ground wounds tame the edge of round wounds which I never play.
Good luck with your guitar!

[floatingpickup]

I have a Dale Unger (American Archtop) American Legend 7 string guitar that I play fairly often. I find 7 string challenging (I actually prefer playing 6 string) but one particular combo that I play in requires that I play 7. As you are discovering, it can be difficult to play certain chords that require muting one or more strings. That makes it hard to play rhythm guitar with a pick. I have found a few chord shapes that allow me to mute the unused strings and I stick to those when using a pick. More often, however, I use my thumb and fingers when backing others up with the 7 string guitar. I tend to play walking bass lines with my thumb and throw in comping chords with my fingers. Good luck conquering this beast of a guitar. It can be very rewarding but it keeps you on your toes.
Keith

[silverfoxx]

Hats off to all of you 7 string players, maybe if I
had hands like Tal Farlow i'd give it a shot but
with my dinky pinky's there's no way, 6 strings
are enough of a challenge.

silverfoxx

[Jim Soloway]

Oooh - I'm plenty challenged by six strings as well. Just always wanted to see if I could make one of these things work at "my level." What Guitars N'Jazz has left are the few new one left to be found as Eastman has stopped manufacturing the sevens, because they are such a small part of the market. There are very few affordable seven string archtops available used as well. So I figured I'd sell some other firewood and go after it.

When I got interested in 7-string (now a VERY long time ago) I had a short conversation with Howard Alden in which he steered me in the great direction to get started. (Assuming that you're tuning the low string to an A), take every chord that you know that has it's bottom not on the A string, put your hand in position to play it as you normally would with your finger on the standard A string and once your hand is in position, just swing your finger over to the new added A string. Your bass note will now be the same note but an octave lower. In no time at all you'll find that becomes automatic, so you'll have a group of chords with a bottom not moved down an octave. There are lots of things you can add after that but that one trick gets you well started and makes the music sound very different very quickly.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

That’s a gorgeous guitar - but I thought the Elites all have set pickups. Did Lou’s tech add the floater to an acoustic?

Here’s mine -


I use TI JS113s above a 0.076” RW John Pearse 7th. I’ve tried Chromes and 80/20 acoustic strings on it, in addition to whatever came on it, and the TIs give me both amplified and acoustic tone I love.

As for your question about fingering and muting, I almost always fingerpick except for some solos. I use a bass line when playing alone, and I need all my fingers - so for jazz, I rarely hybrid pick and even more rarely play an entire tune with a pick. I stopped playing a 6 over 20 years ago. Once I got comfortable with a 7, I discovered that it’s very helpful to me to barre as often as I can, even for solos. Especially when fingerpicking, this lets me position my left hand for efficient runs without having to move as much to finger each note. If I need to mute E6 in a chord with a note on the 7th string, I bend the first joint on my index finger enough to mute it while still fretting the 7th string. As Jim says, it’s a natural move that’s especially easy tuned to low A.

I hope you get as much joy from yours as I do from mine!

[Zigracer]

"When I got interested in 7-string (now a VERY long time ago) I had a short conversation with Howard Alden in which he steered me in the great direction to get started. (Assuming that you're tuning the low string to an A), take every chord that you know that has it's bottom not on the A string, put your hand in position to play it as you normally would with your finger on the standard A string and once your hand is in position, just swing your finger over to the new added A string. Your bass note will now be the same note but an octave lower. In no time at all you'll find that becomes automatic, so you'll have a group of chords with a bottom not moved down an octave. There are lots of things you can add after that but that one trick gets you well started and makes the music sound very different very quickly." - Jim Soloway

Thank you, Jim. I'm going to work on that right now.

[Zigracer]

That’s a gorgeous guitar - but I thought the Elites all have set pickups. Did Lou’s tech add the floater to an acoustic?

Here’s mine -


I use TI JS113s above a 0.076” RW John Pearse 7th. I’ve tried Chromes and 80/20 acoustic strings on it, in addition to whatever came on it, and the TIs give me both amplified and acoustic tone I love.

As for your question about fingering and muting, I almost always fingerpick except for some solos. I use a bass line when playing alone, and I need all my fingers - so for jazz, I rarely hybrid pick and even more rarely play an entire tune with a pick. I stopped playing a 6 over 20 years ago. Once I got comfortable with a 7, I discovered that it’s very helpful to me to barre as often as I can, even for solos. Especially when fingerpicking, this lets me position my left hand for efficient runs without having to move as much to finger each note. If I need to mute E6 in a chord with a note on the 7th string, I bend the first joint on my index finger enough to mute it while still fretting the 7th string. As Jim says, it’s a natural move that’s especially easy tuned to low A.

I hope you get as much joy from yours as I do from mine!

The Elites apparently came from Eastman with the floater and Lou's tech routes the top and installs the set in pickup on some. I tried both. I liked one with the floater better. When I got the guitar home, I really couldn't intonate the low A properly. After closer inspection yesterday, I found that the low E and low A were both strung with .051 gauge strings. Luckily Marc gave me a set of their house strings with the .072 for the low A, so I restrung. I had to widen the nut slot, though. I'll try your advice on the fretting and chording. Thank you!

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I found that the low E and low A were both strung with .051 gauge strings. Luckily Marc gave me a set of their house strings with the .072 for the low A, so I restrung. I had to widen the nut slot, though.

I'm surprised you could get the 72 through the tuner hole. I'd expected a guitar this good to have an appropriately sized 7th tuner, but it was not to be. My first 7 string archtop is the AF207 I bought in 1997 when they were introduced. It has excellent hardware which includes a larger 7th tuner with a bigger post and a bigger string hole that matches the other 6. So I expected other good archtop 7s to follow suit. But my 810 has 7 identical standard tuners, and I couldn't thread a 72 Pearse without forcing it much too hard (which I didn't do).

I tried unsuccessfully to order or find an Ibanez 7th tuner for it. So I removed the original and carefully drilled the hole to a #47 (a 47 wire gauge drill is 0.0785") and lightly chamfered the edges. Fortunately, intonation with the 76 is excellent, so I didn't have to chance it and go any larger - overdrilling can weaken the post enough to cause the edge of the post to crush under string tension or even to break. Otherwise I use custom Sperzels, which you can order with 0.076" or 0.085" holes in larger posts for the 7th string. If I needed to go to an 0.080+, I'd get a Sperzel in gold with a black button and live with the mismatch in appearance.

[Zigracer]

I'm surprised you could get the 72 through the tuner hole. I'd expected a guitar this good to have an appropriately sized 7th tuner, but it was not to be. My first 7 string archtop is the AF207 I bought in 1997 when they were introduced. It has excellent hardware which includes a larger 7th tuner with a bigger post and a bigger string hole that matches the other 6. So I expected other good archtop 7s to follow suit. But my 810 has 7 identical standard tuners, and I couldn't thread a 72 Pearse without forcing it much too hard (which I didn't do).

I tried unsuccessfully to order or find an Ibanez 7th tuner for it. So I removed the original and carefully drilled the hole to a #47 (a 47 wire gauge drill is 0.0785") and lightly chamfered the edges. Fortunately, intonation with the 76 is excellent, so I didn't have to chance it and go any larger - overdrilling can weaken the post enough to cause the edge of the post to crush under string tension or even to break. Otherwise I use custom Sperzels, which you can order with 0.076" or 0.085" holes in larger posts for the 7th string. If I needed to go to an 0.080+, I'd get a Sperzel in gold with a black button and live with the mismatch in appearance.

Yes I had no problem with the tuner hole. But I also noticed that the Guitars 'N Jazz/Newtone strings had a slight taper to them near the end of the string. I did have a little problem with the 72 fitting in the tailpiece. I may file the slot a little wider, but I was able to just put a small bend right next to the ball and slide it in that way.

[Zigracer]

When I got interested in 7-string (now a VERY long time ago) I had a short conversation with Howard Alden in which he steered me in the great direction to get started. (Assuming that you're tuning the low string to an A), take every chord that you know that has it's bottom not on the A string, put your hand in position to play it as you normally would with your finger on the standard A string and once your hand is in position, just swing your finger over to the new added A string. Your bass note will now be the same note but an octave lower. In no time at all you'll find that becomes automatic, so you'll have a group of chords with a bottom not moved down an octave. There are lots of things you can add after that but that one trick gets you well started and makes the music sound very different very quickly.

Jim, Do you mean an inversion of the chord where the root is not the lowest note in that inversion?

[Jim Soloway]

Jim, Do you mean an inversion of the chord where the root is not the lowest note in that inversion?

No, much simpler. An example ... a C7#9 at the third fret. On a 6 string you're playing x-3-2-3-4-x. On a 7 string, you're playing 3-x-x-2-3-4-x. A little more sophisticated ... an Fmaj9 at the 8th fret: on a 6 string you can play x-8-5-5-5-5. On a 7 string you can play 8-x-x-5-5-5-5. So you're playing the exact same voicing but with the root down an octave (or even just the lowest note of an inversion). Now do that for every chord you know that has it's lowest note on the 5th string. Just swing it over two strings and go down an octave. You immediately sound like you're playing with a bass player.

An extension of this thought ... Most people view a 7 string with a low A as going a 5th below a 6 string but the reality is that since you're using the low A to replace the normal A, you're actually adding a full octave down on those chords. That's an enormous difference and you achieve it just by moving your finger over by two strings on the same fret.

[Zigracer]

No, much simpler. An example ... a C7#9 at the third fret. On a 6 string you're playing x-3-2-3-4-x. On a 7 string, you're playing 3-x-x-2-3-4-x. A little more sophisticated ... an Fmaj9 at the 8th fret: on a 6 string you can play x-8-5-5-5-5. On a 7 string you can play 8-x-x-5-5-5-5. So you're playing the exact same voicing but with the root down an octave (or even just the lowest note of an inversion). Now do that for every chord you know that has it's lowest note on the 5th string. Just swing it over two strings and go down an octave. You immediately sound like you're playing with a bass player.

An extension of this thought ... Most people view a 7 string with a low A as going a 5th below a 6 string but the reality is that since you're using the low A to replace the normal A, you're actually adding a full octave down on those chords. That's an enormous difference and you achieve it just by moving your finger over by two strings on the same fret.

Okay, That's what I was initially doing. I was having success fingerpicking, but when trying to use a pick, I was having difficulty muting the two strings. This is definitely a rabbit hole I'm diving deep into at least for now. And BTW, this guitar sounds great!

[Jim Soloway]

Okay, That's what I was initially doing. I was having success fingerpicking, but when trying to use a pick, I was having difficulty muting the two strings. This is definitely a rabbit hole I'm diving deep into at least for now. And BTW, this guitar sounds great!

I've been strictly a finger player for decades so I'm probably not the best to advise you but my first thought would be hybrid picking with a pick and fingers together.

[pcjazz]

Okay, That's what I was initially doing. I was having success fingerpicking, but when trying to use a pick, I was having difficulty muting the two strings. This is definitely a rabbit hole I'm diving deep into at least for now. And BTW, this guitar sounds great!

Thumbpick and fingers.

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Do 7-stringer guitars typical use a normal scale length [in the range 24.75" -- 25.5"]? Not counting fan-fretted guitars, of course.

[Stringswinger]

Do 7-stringer guitars typical use a normal scale length [in the range 24.75" -- 25.5"]? Not counting fan-fretted guitars, of course.

Yes. I had two 7 string archtops with the 24.75 scale and found that the intonation on the loa A was far from perfect.