Vintage Acoustic German Archtops Compared to American Archtops

[adamrhowe]

Has anybody had experience with any vintage German-made acoustic archtops? I'm focussing mainly on acoustic sound and volume. How does a high-end German model from their prime era (50s/60s) compare to a high-end American model from their prime era (pre 50s)?

I own an A. Hoyer 'Herr Im Frack' which plays very nicely, however, I have never played another acoustic archtop so I can't compare and comment on its acoustic qualities.

I have noticed on reverb that a top-of-the-line German guitar, such as a R. Hoyer Jazzstar, goes for the same price or less than a low-end American guitar such as a Cromwell. Are they this much cheaper simply because they were not made in America or are they actually that much inferior?

Thanks!

[Hammertone]

Welcome to the forum.

Question 1: the answer is "yes."
Question 2:the answer is "they compare very favourably and are similar yet different."
Question 3: the answer is "because they were not made in America."

Links to German Archtops 101 reading list to follow later.

[Webby]

I used to play a 50s höfner 455 for quite a while. I got it for 80€, as the neck has a bow which can't be easily adjusted, because it lacks a trussrod. I didnt bother, because i wanted it for Freddie Green comping, so i actually wanted a setup with a higher Action.
I learned that this guitar easily cuts through a big band without the need for amplification.
Here is an older live recording (Zoom recorder in front of the Band) which shows these qualities quite well I think:
Stream In A Mellow Tone by Swingcat | Listen online for free on SoundCloud

[adamrhowe]

Here is an older live recording (Zoom recorder in front of the Band) which shows these qualities quite well I think:
Stream In A Mellow Tone by Swingcat | Listen online for free on SoundCloud

now THAT is a great Freddie Green sound! Thanks for sharing! I suppose having one with an already bowed neck means you can slap heavy strings on with a high action and not worry about it as much?

[Klatu]

I took a look at the Jazzstar and noticed that none of the models that I saw were fitted with truss rods. That would make me hesitant when purchasing a guitar of that vintage.

[supersoul]

I'm a fan of old German archtops. Mine is from the 50s. Hand-carved spruce (I think) top and bottom. It has the German carve. No pickup.

Volume-wise, with a plectrum it is comparable to my Taylor flat top, maybe slightly quieter. Tonewise, I like that I can hear each note in a chord. It's responsive dynamically. If I play quietly it doesn't lose tone and it doesn't crap out or compress if I play harder. I usually play with fingers, so there's that.

Acoustically it is much better than any American archtop that I've played. But they all had pickups and were meant to be plugged in. So they're different instruments, in a way.

The "Herr im Frack" is a nice looking guitar. I was eyeing one before I found the mine.

Edit: I actually just checked my Taylor flattop and my German archtop side by side, and the Taylor is much fuller in the bass, but the archtop has a more focused sound that cuts through more.

[Hammertone]

There are a few threads about vintage European archtops on this forum. For some light reading, here are a few threads with a variety of information about German archtop guitars:

Vintage German Archtops

Artur Lang Archtop

Klira Archtop

Hopf Craftsman.

Roger Guitars

In an old Soviet ad... I spy a.... Roger?

Tauscher & Co , Taco guitars

A Hoyer Bridge problem

Hofner Chancellor

Where are the Hofner full body, (single) florentine cutaway specimens?

Hofner Committee

[RJVB]

I considered this deliciously kitsch model for a while; german-vintage-guitar.com had pristine & fully restored one for 600 or 800€ when I was looking for an LH-650 . Ultimately I didn't dare to take the step without even having heard one.

Wolfgang Hüttle "Pique Dame"

[citizenk74]

Has anybody had experience with any vintage German-made acoustic archtops? I'm focussing mainly on acoustic sound and volume. How does a high-end German model from their prime era (50s/60s) compare to a high-end American model from their prime era (pre 50s)?

I own an A. Hoyer 'Herr Im Frack' which plays very nicely, however, I have never played another acoustic archtop so I can't compare and comment on its acoustic qualities.

I have noticed on reverb that a top-of-the-line German guitar, such as a R. Hoyer Jazzstar, goes for the same price or less than a low-end American guitar such as a Cromwell. Are they this much cheaper simply because they were not made in America or are they actually that much inferior?

Thanks!

[adamrhowe]

There are a few threads about vintage European archtops on this forum. For some light reading, here are a few threads with a variety of information about German archtop guitars:

Vintage German Archtops

Artur Lang Archtop

Klira Archtop

Hopf Craftsman.

Roger Guitars

In an old Soviet ad... I spy a.... Roger?

Tauscher & Co , Taco guitars

A Hoyer Bridge problem

Hofner Chancellor

Where are the Hofner full body, (single) florentine cutaway specimens?

Hofner Committee

Great! Thanks!

[adamrhowe]

I took a look at the Jazzstar and noticed that none of the models that I saw were fitted with truss rods. That would make me hesitant when purchasing a guitar of that vintage.

Strangely this has never bothered me. I have 12s on my Hoyer and the neck is still very straight. However, I have a slight suspicion that higher-end Hoyer necks such as this are reinforced.

[Ol' Fret]

When passing the Gibson L-5WM and its competitor Hoyer 3065 "Meister Lang" from the 1970s (no brand name and no "custom" on the simple headstock), just watching the fretboard inlay selection on these guitars, I think about the term "custom".
Is custom only where it says custom or is it perhaps the other way round?