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Grant Green's playing and tone on the Blue Note Records Albums of the early 60s is classic, classy and tasteful.
As far as we all know he used the rather humble thinline Gibson ES 330 into whatever amp was available – which mostly seemed to be a Fender tweed deluxe. However by mid century he changed to full body guitars like the Gibson L7, later Epiphone Emperor and eventually a custom made D'Aquisto.
Famous Jazz Guitarists and Their Guitar Gear
He must have liked the P90 Pickups as he used the McCarty loaded pickguard on the L7 and the Emperor. I understand that Bill Lawrence (Billy Lorento as we now him here in Cologne) made him a custom pickup for the D'Aquisto.
I wonder: Why did he choose the thinline ES 330 at the start of his recording years? A rather uncommon choice as most of his contemporaries like Kenny Burrell, Barney Kessel, Jim Hall used full bodied instruments like the ES 175, ES 350, L5, Super 400 etc.
Did he deliberatley choose it for the tone or comfort or was it more a decision driven by budget or availability?
Was it a novelty (the ES 330 was introduced in 1959 so just in time for him to use on the early 60s recordings)?
Or just a used guitar he got in a bargain?
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04-08-2022 02:19 AM
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"was it more a decision driven by budget or availability?"
I'd probably say this though I really don't know for sure, just a guess
I don't have the book anymore but I think they discussed his guitars
Here's an early shot of him w/a Strat, he might be using this before the switch to the 330
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I suppose he chose it because it gave him the distinctive sound for which he became famous. The three-hundred series guitars were Gibson's most modern, designed to produce the bite and volume of a solid, but with the rounder and more woody tone of a semi-acoustic (according to Ian Bishop's The Gibson Guitar from 1950, Volume 1). While the semi-hollow 335, 345 and 355 were fitted with humbuckers, the 330 was hollow-bodied and fitted with single-coils. It was probably the obvious choice for someone who had played a Strat but wanted a jazz guitar.
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So you think it was an informed decision, Litterick?
The Book by Sharony Green doesn't tell much about his intention to use what he used. That's why I started the thread. It only says he wasn't really fond of the Gibsons.
That's why I guess that using them maybe was more or less a question of budget and availability than choice. Maybe someone here knows more?
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BTW, I wonder which gauge of strings the mentioned "light gauge, flat-wound D'Aquistos" were? What was considered "light gauge" back in these days – maybe .012s? I
think that Grant Green jr. said that his father used .014 gauges?
So very contradictory information. Well, it doesn't really matter, I'm just curious.
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She does not cite her source for that claim. Who could know what he thought? What else might he have bought? A Gibson would be the first choice at that time for a gigging guitarist who is getting gigs, like Grant Green.
Originally Posted by guavajelly
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Interesting information, G. I have mentioned in several other discussions that "Semi's/Thinlines" were the soup du jour for most working Jazz/R@B/Soul guitarists in Chicago during the 60's/70's. It's comfortable and can be tweaked to give a very tasty Jazz sound. Not surprising that Grant played one before he went to archtops. Personally, I love the sound. Do you know of any recording he made with the thinline?
Marinero
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Marinero, I think that all recordings before 1964 were done with the ES 330 thinline guitar. Grant Green discography - Wikipedia
Actually his tone doesn't change much through his career so I can't tell by ear when he switched to the L7 and Epiphone. I think the D'Aquisto was made for him in 1973 so he probably used it from then till his untimely death.
I speculate here so pease don't quote me.
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Actually she cites the sources on the second page. Just look at the picture in post #4. Originally Posted by Litterick
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I cannot speak for anyone but myself. My choice of instruments has always been dependent on two factors. 1) Is it available? and 2) Can I swing the dough?
Guitarists today are spoiled for choice. You don't even necessarily need to have the price in hand. You don't even have to leave your abode, whatever you want can be delivered. Returns are no questions asked.
This was not true in Green's time.
Last edited by citizenk74; 04-08-2022 at 10:20 AM.
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I don’t know which maker introduced “light gauge” sets or when. But Guild introduced their EA610L “light gauge” flats in the early ‘60s, when I was in high school and had recently gotten a nice used 175DN. I bought a set when they first arrived at my dealer (Music City, in Atlantic City, NJ) and loved them so much I used them until Guild stopped selling them. Originally Posted by guavajelly
The first ones were the 610Ls (11-54 as I recall) and that’s what I used. They also had a medium set (610M) that was 13-56 IIRC, and they then came out with a “super light) 610SL that was 9-46 or 48. The SL set had a plain 3rd but the 11s came only with a wound 3rd. The 11 and its companion B (15, I think) were a revelation after using a 13 or heavier for my first 5 years or so of playing.
I know that Mark Dronge (the founder of DR Strings) is the son of Al Dronge, who founded Guild Guitars. Mark has said that his father always wanted to make the strings for Guilds but never got it going. I’ve never been able to confirm who made those great strings for Guild. I’ll try to contact Mark Dronge, who probably knows the history of light gauge strings well.
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I am looking at the Collings I-30 with P90's, of which I have not seen in real life yet, and wonder how it
compares with the ES-330.
and if it could get into that Green-sound territory as well of course.
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Did he play standing up or sitting down?
If the first is the case, there aren't many guitar that are a light as a 330. It does make a huge difference on a gig.
Personally I love my T64 (330 clone). The P90s cut though the mix nicely and it thunks like a thunker.
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Hi, G, Originally Posted by guavajelly
Your comments about his personal tone are perceptive since tone IS a personal trait of a musician and I agree that this element is always evident in a musician's performance. Far too many musicians think that it's only the guitar that makes the sound. Nothing could be further from the truth.
Marinero
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Not as interested in his guitar choice, but what about that Gibson LP 12 amplifier. I did not know that one (probably because it is solid state and off my radar).
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Off topic but made me think of an ad for a 'monster' amp I DO have, the 180watt tube Fender Super Twin (six 6L6 output tubes):
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and that made me think of this... Originally Posted by icr
Off topic but made me think of an ad for a 'monster' amp I DO have, the 180watt tube Fender Super Twin (six 6L6 output tubes):
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I agree guitar choice even among the pros, but especially at that time when money was tight and guits were expensive, has always depended on money and availability. Most guitarists back then generally went for the most modern equipment. There weren't a lot of them who said "Oh just give me what Charlie Christian had."
Which might be a bit different from today. Reminds me how in the 70's Moog was THE keyboard for aspiring players. But by the 1980s it was old hat, and people had moved onto Korg, Yamaha, etc.
Nowadays players can't get enough of that vintage stuff.
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Originally Posted by guavajelly
Tobias 'TJ' Jundt of Berne? Do we know him? Must we find those articles in the hope that one of them might tell us Green disliked Gibsons? By citing a source, I mean a note that tells us the information is on a particular page of a particular publication, so I can verify it.
Lou Donaldson, the bandleader who discovered Green playing in a bar in St Louis, is still with us. We should ask him.
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The ES-330 was a thinline hollowbody guitar before there were thinline versions of the ES-125, ES-175. Mr Green might have chosen it because it was the only thin hollowbody with good upper fret access. It was also low-priced for its time.
Emily Remler converted an ES-330 from P90 to humbuckers for much the same reasons. Worked well for her, too.
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I'm pretty sure the 330 was released in 1959, 3 years after the 125T was introduced. I don't recall a thinline version of the 175 - what model was it? Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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330 would make sense if he was coming from a Strat (compared to a full sized archtop).
On the other hand - 330s are just great, one of my favourite designs, no justification needed really
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ES-175T
Had one, in that cherry red color. Another guitar that I had to sell at a rough time that I miss.
But it wasn’t a thunker, it actually was thin in tone.
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Wow - I don’t remember that one at all! When did they make it? Originally Posted by jazzkritter
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Back in the 60s, when I first became interested in guitars, I had no idea that some guitars had a center block and others didn't.
For that matter, I didn't find out about carved vs pressed tops for years after that.
So, you played what the store had, and picked the best one you could afford.
I can't even remember a salesman at the time touting carved or block or anything like that. I can recall one salesman saying, "the action is like butter" -- before I realized that was something that could likely be adjusted for the price of a string set, or just some knob turning.
So, it strikes me as possible that a guitarist at that time played the 330, liked it, and it didn't cross his mind that it was hollower than the 335.
This is all speculation of course, except for the experiences I described.
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