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What is the sound difference between a metal trapeze tailpiece and an ebony tailpiece?
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05-04-2022 04:37 PM
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Sometimes not much, sometimes a lot. The tailpiece in the top picture is probably the standard type, which is a metal tailpiece with a piece of wood attached to the top. The wood can suppress high frequencies, giving a somewhat darker sound, but the old standby trapeze isn't usually that bright either. I would say that having the wood on top often gives a slightly darker tone with fewer zingy highs, but every guitar is different, as are tailpieces. It's a maybe, but I wouldn't bet the rent money on it, either way.
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Ear of the beholder. And it depends a lot on the instrument it's mounted on. And whether you're talking acoustic or electric. Or whether you're talking about feel our sound. Or listener or player. Or string gauge. Or how sensitive the top beneath the bridge is (solid? Laminate? Thick solid? Thin tuned cedar archtop?).
Or Tune-0-matic or solid wood saddle piece...and that's for starters.
It's one of many factours and I personally think it makes a difference in feel, touch and attack on the solid top acoustics I play but I don't think it makes nearly as much difference to the sound to a listener. That's one among many opinions but it's the reason why I like putting solid tailpieces on my guitar.
If you A/B there's a chance it won't make any difference, and that means there's a chance it will. Only you can know. Truly. Blanket generalizations are misleading on this topic IMHO.
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[Nice Holst pics!]
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Will either affect the balance of the guitar? (Neck dive)
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The tailpiece should not be making any noise, irrespective of what it is made from.
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Sorry, I should have been clearer-I meant an all wood tailpiece Like I had Steve Holst make for me previously for another guitar. (Godin 5th Ave.)
Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Fair enough.
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There's a video on YouTube in which Jack Wilkins is asked this question. He had (has?) a Benedetto with an Ebony tailpiece, but with a metal tailpiece in the video. He said he couldn't hear any real difference.
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Thanks, I'll go look for it. If it's Jack Wilkins, I'm interested in what he has to say.
Doug
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The length of string behind the bridge is different.
I'm not at all sure, but I've been trying to figure out why one of my guitars feels much harder to play than another. One of the possibilities is that the softer one has more length of string behind the bridge.
That part of string stretches too when you're trying to fret or bend a note -- unless it's locked at the bridge.
What I'm wondering is if this length is very important to the feel of the guitar. Even just a few inches.
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I prefer ebony tailpiece...but made entirely of wood.
I have experimented with the tailpieces.
The wooden tailpiece-strings does not sound as metallic as on the metal one.
On my guitar, the wooden tailpiece harmonizes better with the whole instrument - it creates a whole.
...but maybe metal tailpiece create a little better sustain/with undertones/.
The strings are very important - the TI Swing plays nice also on the metallic tailpiece-have their ends secured.
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It's one of the Route 7 Music clinics, with Jack and Peter Bernstein. I don't have time right now to search through them and find the exact time. All are worth listening to, though, for the playing. Originally Posted by Doug B
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The thing is, now would you know? By the time you have changed over, your ear is like to have forgotten what the other sounded like!
For the record, both of mine have brass, with one having wooden inserts, both sound great, I'll chase tone elsewhere!
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Roger Borys told me that metal tailpieces resonate the sound more effectively than wooden ones.
My '35 D'A has a metal one also, so methinks he's following John D'A on that one.
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There was a talk or demonstration that Jimmy D'Aquisto gave, I don't know whether it was ever documented or published, but he talked to great length and detail about ways in which he followed his mentor John D'Angelico and ways in which his construction techniques evolved from what he was taught.
One of the things he did talk about in great detail was the roles of all the individual elements of a guitar worked together as one: You couldn't just change one thing and expect a life changing improvement.
This is one of the reasons his later models moved away from metallic fittings and even MOP ornaments. He firmly felt that he had the knowledge to strive towards a perfect instrument and that involved control over characteristics and feel through his craft. Shorter tailpieces were different from longer ones, he would craft tailpieces to fit the playing needs of the individual's demands and style. Bridge mass and especially the foot of the bridge were also integral to working with a specific top and what he wanted the end result to be. He didn't want any pearl to interfere with the carved tuning of any one specific wooden piece. His last guitars were completely devoid of anything but wood and those all had to be resonance tuned.
That was the final chapter in an almost mystic master of lutherie and he did achieve a level of mastery that is audible. As to whether he could have built as good an instrument with a metal tailpiece, who knows? But he was one of the progenitors of the wooden tailpiece in archtop guitars and that was largely because he could 'craft' the sound with a piece of wood, change the string length through the individual tailpiece and even the extraneous resonances of the strings between the bridge and the tailpiece. So we're not talking generic wooden replacements but something he saw as integral as a top or a neck.
Jimmy D'Aquisto wasn't the most articulate about describing just HOW he did it, or he didn't share that but there's no doubt that he was an extremely savvy artist who knew his stuff.
Take if for what you will.
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The funny thing is that Roger apprenticed with Jimmy for five years, and followed everything that Jimmy did, except for the metal tailpieces. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
I think he still had a reverence for John D'Angelico that even superseded his reverence for Jimmy.
When he insisted that I play one of his big B420 carved archtops, he asked me what I thought of it, and I told him I had a literal flashback to the days when I used to play my teacher's D'Angelico New Yorker. I told him the 420 was the only guitar that sounded as good as the D'A.
He told me that was the greatest compliment he had ever received in his life.
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I think this is the video in question: Originally Posted by sgosnell
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Yes, that's the one I remember. Not wonderful camera work, but oh well.
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