Good jazz amp but only 5 watts?

**Rob MacKillop** · 04-12-2010, 05:19 PM

I'm strictly a bedroom player these days, well, to be more accurate, living room. I teach at home as well. My 10watt Marshall does for most situations (most of my students play acoustic). But for myself I would like a nice classic jazz sound in a small cabinet, no more than five watts - in fact two watts would suffice.

Suggestions?

I've tried playing through my hi-fi, but it doesn't sound quite right. Maybe a preamp would do it? I play an archtop, some fingerstyle, some pick/plectrum.

Thanks in advance.

Rob

**randyc** · 04-12-2010, 05:26 PM

Older Fender Champs range from 3 watts to 6 watts, depending on year manufactured. Three tubes, conservative bullet-proof design, nice sound and very light. (Can squeeze a ten inch speaker into the newer ones although it's not painless.) There are a number of clones of this amplifier, should be fairly easy to find one.

PS: you CAN use your stereo system but equalization is required to compensate for the excessive midrange response of the magnetic pickup. A simple, passive R-L-C network (about $3 U.S.) will do the job. What's required is a notch filter centered at about 600 Hz, attenuation of about 6 dB and bandwidth around 200 Hz. If you're handy (or have a friend that is electronics-friendly) it's a simple task.

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-12-2010, 05:30 PM

It's 100 watts, but don't let that scare you!

I have the Phil Jones CUB AG-100 and use it with an archtop that has floating pickup. It's an acoustic guitar amp, so it's uncolored -- it sounds like your guitar, only louder. When I was looking for an amp, I was split for a while between more of a colored, electric, sound, like a Polytone or a tube amp, and more of an acoustic sound. Consider the CUB if you're leaning toward the latter!

EDIT: and I see they have a dealer in Edinburgh!

**bkdavidson** · 04-12-2010, 06:36 PM

To second what BDLH said, don't be fooled by the 100 watts. I have one of these as well, and it is a pretty quiet 100 watts. For a super-clean jazz sound, I think it's pretty unparalleled for tone.

**goshawk** · 04-12-2010, 09:23 PM

You could try the Epiphone Valve Junior, a 5-watt 12AX7/EL84 design. There are, or at least were, combo (8-in) and head versions. If you look at the combo, make sure it's a newer version (there have been two or three design revisions) - the original had a pronounced hum, which was fixed later.

Very simple design, just a volume knob. Keep it around 10 o'clock and you'll get a nice, clean sound. That said, with no tone stack or other controls, and the smaller speaker, you may find it's not "full" enough for the jazz tone you want, so take a listen if you can.

**mongrel** · 04-12-2010, 10:13 PM

My lowest powered rig is 1/2 watt into a Panasonic bookshelf audio speaker with a 15" woofer and a 3" tweeter. My "amp" is one of those cheapo Marshalls that weights about 8 ounces and is powered by a 9 volt battery and has a wall-wart DC 9v converter input which I use. It has two output options: a headphone jack and an internal 2" 8ohm speaker. I disconnected the leads to the speaker and ran them to the bookshelve speaker input, also 8 ohms, and expected the half a watt to not be able to cause the speakers to even move air. I was wrong. On the clean channel, you can run it to 5 or 6 on the volume knob and it stays clean and can get almost as loud as my Fender Champ (the early '70's model with the crappy 8" stock speaker). The little Marshall also has an overdrive channel which is surprising good, especially with my hollow body archtop. I bought the mini-Marshall on sale at Guitar Center 10 years ago for like $19.95. The bookshelve speaker was a "take it or I'll put it in the trash" from my father in law.

**Steve Hoffman** · 04-12-2010, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

I'm strictly a bedroom player these days, well, to be more accurate, living room. I teach at home as well. My 10watt Marshall does for most situations (most of my students play acoustic). But for myself I would like a nice classic jazz sound in a small cabinet, no more than five watts - in fact two watts would suffice.

Suggestions?

I've tried playing through my hi-fi, but it doesn't sound quite right. Maybe a preamp would do it? I play an archtop, some fingerstyle, some pick/plectrum.

Thanks in advance.

Rob

Hi Rob,

I don't think it's possible with so few watts. A burst of dynamics on a plucked note can send any small wattage amp into overload distortion. That is OK for Memphis Minnie but bad for jazz.

Problem is, there really is no proper way to do jazz guitar without those dynamics. A Champ will just sag. You need the extra watts for those occasional peaks.

So, it's not easy. Have you thought of a headphone setup?

**Drifter** · 04-13-2010, 12:50 AM

I don't like the sound of those cheap 5 watt tube amps like the Epiphone VJr. And they're loud! You need to turn up the volume way past bedroom level to get a decent sound. If you're going for tubes, I'd suggest the use of a attenuator with your regular amp. Gets you the tone you're used to.
http://www.tedweber.com/atten.htm

I haven't tried the Koch Classic SE though, which seems to be a very nice amp. The 6 watt version can be switched to 2 watts. With its 12" spaker, it might be a bedroom giant.
Classic SE

**Rob MacKillop** · 04-13-2010, 02:50 AM

Thank you, everyone. Much to think about.

I also have a bass amp, an Aria AB-30, and although it is a cheap bass amp, I've just discovered it makes the archtop sound pretty good. So maybe I'll stick with that until I find 'the perfect amp'.

**Chito** · 04-13-2010, 06:29 AM

I am a fan of small tube amps. Right now I'm using a Blackheart Little Giant (5-3 watts). If you don't need to play loud, it's got enough headroom. I've played it with a 7-piece and still was loud enough clean. I also have a couple of ss amps, a Mini Brute IV and a ZT Lunchbox, and the one thing I miss from tube amps is the dynamics. It's just different, for me at least. I just ordered a Traynor Dark Horse, 15 watts with 6v6s. It's a versatile amp and gives you a lot of options specially if you play different kinds of music. You might want to look into that too.

**Little Jay** · 04-13-2010, 07:46 AM

You don't state it has to be a tubeamp right?

I would say a Roland MicroCube is what you are looking for!

**BigDaddyLoveHandles** · 04-13-2010, 09:29 AM

Wattage is misleading, because it's difficult to compare tube and SS amps across their listed wattage. What you should have written is that you want an amp to play in your living room.

**Rob MacKillop** · 04-13-2010, 09:43 AM

Yes, I should have.

I doubt if many of the recommedations would be substantially better than my Marshall, but I'll never know unless I try first. So, I'll take my guitar around the shops. I think, though, I am looking for a 'great' jazz sound for playing IN MY LIVING ROOM

**Scolohofo** · 04-13-2010, 10:09 AM

Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop

Yes, I should have.

I doubt if many of the recommedations would be substantially better than my Marshall, but I'll never know unless I try first. So, I'll take my guitar around the shops. I think, though, I am looking for a 'great' jazz sound for playing IN MY LIVING ROOM

Then you should go for the phil jones!This amp is pretty at low volume to.

**Little Jay** · 04-13-2010, 10:58 AM

Still: Roland MicroCube.

Gives a surprisingly great jazzsound in the livingroom and won't cost you an arm and a leg. I have the Cube30x, but that's too much for just the livingroom (though it works fine with the volume turned down), so if you only plan to use it for the livingroom then the MicroCube is enough. You could even hook it to your stereo through the record/phone output.
And it has effects.

If you think the 5" speaker is too smallish, then try out the Cube 15 or Cube 20.

**Doctor Jeff** · 04-13-2010, 11:00 AM

I'll second the Epiphone Valve Jr combo (newer version). It's got a nice warm tone that is perfect for jazz IMO. It's plenty loud for the living room, and you can output it to another cabinet if you need to.

At $100 on Ebay or used, it's a steal...

**Drifter** · 04-13-2010, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Doctor Jeff

I'll second the Epiphone Valve Jr combo (newer version). It's got a nice warm tone that is perfect for jazz IMO.

I've played several and I'm sorry to say that - to me - it sounds like a small pre wwII radio, even with a good cab. The tone is slightly nasal and it comes from the amp, not the speaker. Some people like just that but I don't agree that it's perfect for Jazz. Unless you're going for the very very old school Jazz.

**Doctor Jeff** · 04-13-2010, 12:11 PM

Well, I wouldn't call the Epi Valve Jr sound "nasal"--not pronounced on the high end if you ask me, but amp choice is certainly subjective and depends on the guitar and what kind of sound you're going for. This amp is famous for being modifiable:

DVM's Valve Junior DIY Mods Page

I play an Epi Joe Pass and a Godin Kingpin through it--the latter is more of an "old school" sound. I would suggest to anyone to try it before they buy it--play it alongside some of the other small tube amps or small SS amps.

**Russ Kapp** · 04-13-2010, 03:20 PM

I'll third Goshawk & Doc Jeff. I've been using the newest version of the Epi Valve Jr. ( hot rod ) and ext cab and have been getting an amazingly rich and dynamic tone. By the way, when discussing amps and tone I like to consider what particular guitar and how it's being played into the mix...I've discovered the more things I factor in, the more the amp becomes another team player.......just my take for now.....I am willing to be wrong.....

**woyvel** · 04-13-2010, 07:27 PM

I like the idea of the Micro Cube, but I'd definitely check out the small Vox VT models and the Vox DA portables.

With the Micro Cube or DA you get several models AND battery capability, so you have that much more versatility for jazz or anything else.

The VT models have a wattage knob on the back so you can bring down the wattage (and volume) while still getting the tone of that particular model.

Stringbean · 04-13-2010, 10:05 PM

Mobile Cube. a sweet stereo chorus, delay, reverb. multiple inputs and out puts. The ultimate bedroom amp.

**HotClubBrampton** · 04-14-2010, 12:40 AM

My Vox AC4TV gives a great jazz tone with it's variable output, from 1/4 w to 4W. It has a 10" celestion speaker (stock) and the tone is awesome.
I bought it exactly for your reason, great tone, portability, low volume for living room and bedroom
the Roland cubes are also a great solution, same as the fender champion 600 and it's alter ego, the gretsch 5122(?)

**Rob MacKillop** · 04-14-2010, 01:51 AM

Again, friends, many thanks for all your suggestions. Much appreciated, and much to think about.

**YocoYur** · 04-18-2010, 09:10 AM

I think that Roland Cube 20X is the best for bedrom player. I have Cube 30 and 20X and 20X is just fantastic, and sounds better than Cube 30.

You can play on clean chanel at very low volume but it is sound perfect all the time, you can also use second chanel, just leave gain on zero and play (clean). There is also nice chorus and reverb or delay.

There is also AUX for jamming along with MP3 or CD player and headphones/line output for silence practicing or for direct recording.

I think it is really the best bang for that money.

There is a sample:

**RoyaleT** · 04-18-2010, 09:41 AM

Roland cubes are versatile, nice at lower volume and very affordable. Excellent units are always available used on E-Bay, also. I have a 20x(8") I like a lot with both Epi Dot and Aria FA71 at home. That or a 30x with the 10" speaker would work well.