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I am used to play in blues/rock bands and several big bands for the last 15-20 years or so. A new challenge has come my way: playing in a small, 4-5 pcs jazz combo playing with alt sax, and rythm section. Purpose is to play jazz standards with a lot of room for improvisation in - IMHO - very small settings of 20-100 people audience. I am not used to that at all. O dear
At this point I have a lot of questions. What gear do I need.
At present I have a couple of dual PUs L5s and an array of other guitars and a clean loud 200 Watt transistor amp. That looks way overkill to me.
What type of guitar/amp would suit the bill? As for the amp: something clean, not to loud and heavy like say a DV Markbass of a Fender LT50? Or does it have to be a tube amp? Something else you can recommend? What guitar do I start with and why. Use my L5? An ampfied Gypsy jazz guitar? An amplified acoustic archtop? I have them all, but what is suited best?
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10-09-2022 09:59 AM
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The L5 will work very well, probably hard to find anything much better. Whatever amp you have will work, just don't turn it up to 11. I really like my DV Mark Little Jazz, but it's not the only amp that will do the job. Whatever gives you the sound you want is fine. Perhaps not perfect, but good enough until you decide you want something different. I would be in no hurry to start buying gear until I really thought I needed it. The main reason you might want a different amp is size and weight. Big, heavy amps are hard to carry and to fit into small spaces. I would not consider a tube amp, but that's just me. I'm sure other opinions are on the way, so be prepared to choose between many options.
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Nothing wrong with the gear you have -- play on!
[The acoustic/gypsy guitars are a certain "vibe," and the L-5 is a different vibe; which are you and the combo going for?]
And have fun!
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The gear you have is fine, it's the anxiety of being plunged into an unfamiliar situation that's the issue. A few rehearsals to experiment with equipment and the first gig; then you'll be fine. I went through the same thing when I got invited into an R&B band; turned out the same equipment I use for jazz worked just fine for that. I liked my Stratishcaster the best in that particular situation, but I've also used that guitar for jazz gigs quite happily.
personally, I think it's best to go into new situations with gear that I already know well as it reduces the number of variables I am trying to deal with and the stress that those cause.
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Totally good advice here. Several times I have made the mistake of going into a gig with gear I wasn't familiar with- and in several cases they were very big gigs with a lot riding on the outcome! I learned the hard way years ago in NYC to bring my own amp, which wasn't typical back then. I once arrived at a rock recording date and used a Marshal the studio hadl- despite being completely unfamiliar with them! Never made that mistake again.
Originally Posted by Cunamara
If an L5 will give you the sound you want for the gig, I would just start with that and an amp you are familiar with and, as Cunamara said, and then take stock if you are unsatisfied with the outcome. Familiar is better in this case!
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I wish I had your Sumi guitar to play in my combo...
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So, what type of combo are you using? A small transistor? A modest tube amp? Tell me please Originally Posted by stevus
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I am using a Mambo amp for quite a while. But if I would need to buy one now it would be a DV Mark Jazz or Little jazz, I think.
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I've got a Mambo combo, the 10" wedge. It is superb!
Very light and compact, great sound and quite flexible with the 3 voicings, loud, can drive an external cab if needed, good reverb. Highly recommended if your amps are too bulky. 400W into 4 Ohms should give you all the headroom you'd need (personally have not tried it super loud though).
There are at least 2 other forum members playing these.
Check out Mr Dutchbopper's YouTube channel, there are videos using Mambo 10" and DV Mark MrBebopguitar - YouTube
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with a good L5’s
you should be very happy ....
(set it up with some fat strings
and medium action)
amp wise , something small and
light enough for schlepping about easily
and loud enough to keep up with
your band ....
there’s quite a few good options
around for this now
tell us how much you wanna spend
on an amp .... and you’ll get suggestions
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There must have been times playing with the big band where the brass and reed sections dropped out and it was just rhythm section and a soloist. If your equipment was appropriate then, there's no reason it shouldn't be appropriate for your upcoming gig.
At this point in time, jazz 'standards' have been being interpreted with 100 years of variations on style, you might want to ask your bandmates if they have any favorite recordings of the tunes chosen. That might give you some direction on the guitar sound that would be the best fit. But an L5 and clean amp is a classic tone to start with.
Best wishes for your music!
PK
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Many thanks for the responses.
I knew I was okay with the array of guitars. That is more or less a try what will suit best and I am pretty sure that I already do have a suitable style guitar in the house. About the amp I am way less confident. As it looks now, the piano player does not have an amp, no car and very little to no fundings. He is extremely talented though. As plans are getting a bit more firm and serious, I think I will be the one providing the amp that he ( the piano player) needs and so, not only will I provide the practice room for the combo, but also his and my own amp. In conclusion, I do need another amp. Easy to carry and transport, not to loud, and stay very clean. At this point, not having any experience in a small combo, I do not want to spend big. So, a small Fender (50W transistor) or that DV Mark Jazz or something comparable is what I will be looking at.
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You would appear to need an amp with two inputs at least. The DV Mark combos mentioned have only one. Two input amps tend to cost more, but not always. I've never needed more than one, so I have no good recommendations. Fenders and Quilters have very similar sounds. You might look at Fender Tonemaster amps, which are solid-state modelers and reportedly sound very much like the tube amps they're named for. I've never seen or heard one in person. A Quilter Superblock and a cabinet might work. The Toob amps are very light and designed for use with small heads, and if I were starting out I would probably go that route. But there are so many options, you need to take your time and decide what will work best in your situation.
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If you are thinking about keyboard as well, in my experience they need way more clean power than a guitar, sort of like an electric bass. Maybe your 200 watt amp could be used for that and a smaller DV Mark or similar would be a good call for the guitar? Originally Posted by hotpepper01
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O, that is really new to me. Thanks ! That is a real practical tip !!!! Originally Posted by bluejaybill
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Keyboards span a far broader frequency range than guitars. Keyboard amps typically have a woofer and a tweeter to handle that. Also, they're supposed to have a flat response curve, while guitar speakers are known for their midrange peaks and valleys. In jazz, you'd probably stay away from the 25 Hz sub-bass zone. My swing sextet's pianist uses a Roland FP-2, a TC Electronic BAM200 amp and a Toob Metro 6.5FR ultra-light cab whenever a piano is not on hand. Plenty loud, even for outdoor gigs. Tonal versatility resides inside the keyboard, so you don't necessarily need anything costly, just a honest-to-goodness amp and FRFR speaker to amplify the sound.
Disclaimer: I make the Toobs and Metros; 533 units in 31 countries according to latest count.
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I'm very happy with my 19 pound 40Watt Fender Champion 40 (which is under $200 still from Sweetwater). And thanks again to Jim Soloway for pointing out how awesome these small, light amps are. I even use it in my 'dad band' for practice and it holds its own in a 5 musician band.
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I'm seeing it on Sweetwater for $249. The 20-watt version is $129.
Originally Posted by jim777
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Call them and say you saw it recently on their site as marked down to 179 until 12/31, and I believe they will honor that. That's what I did. Originally Posted by chasranney
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Kb usually implies a need for a larger amp, although my regular kb player uses two 19 lb powered speakers on gigs. One on a pole, one as a monitor. It also implies a need for a wide range speaker.
Of course, just because something might be optimal, doesn't mean that something simpler/cheaper can't work.
Since you have a 200 watt amp you seem happy with on guitar, why not just bring that? You may need two inputs. Or, it's possible that there would be a way to plug the guitar into the kb itself and then run one line to the amp. I know it's possible with microphones with some kbs. Or, a simple mixer into the amp.
If you're looking for optimal, then it's a separate guitar amp (like a Little Jazz) and kb amp (like a Roland KB150, athough not every kb players likes that particular one).
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What you have is stuff that is widely used in jazz
However, a Strat or Tele can work too.
As for amps, Fender with 6L6 tubes (twin reverb) ruled for decades.
Super clean solid state too.
Listening to jazz recordings will be helpful. See where Jazz has been.
But just play play play, and fiddle with controls. That's the only way to find "your tone". You happy place.
Quit analyzing and start playing.
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Lee Ritenour got his start playing rock and blues. During his shows he usually rocks out on his cherry 335. And you can tell it makes him feel good. But jazz is his home and that shows too. It takes time. Start playing jazz now and you will get there sooner.
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Not much to add to the above. I play with a small group--singer, piano, bass, drums and occasionally sax. I use a Gibson 135 or 175 or Peerless Sunset paired with a Fishman Artist or occasionally a Fender SCXD. You don't need a ton of wattage or headroom with such a group, especially if your drummer has a smaller kit (ours uses a Tama cocktail kit).
If you need amplification for the piano too, look at a PA system like Bose. That's what our keyboards guy and bass player plug into.
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I've been using my 175 straight into my Deluxe Reverb recently. I've included an example clip below. For that gig I had the volume on the amp just past 3. I like my 175 because it has quite a bit of acoustic sound. At the volume of this gig I can still hear my guitar acoustically in my lap, as well as coming from the amp.
I have been wondering if I could find a lighter and more portable amp. I've been considering a smaller Fender amp or one from the Tone Master series, since they are supposed to be way lighter.
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There are a lot of Quilter Mach 2s showing up on the used market, probably people upgrading to Mach 3.
Gear | Reverb
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