Cordoba Fusion (14) owners?

[RJVB]

Hi,

I mentioned a few weeks back that I was preparing a trade-in of my Seagull mini-jumbo for a Cordoba Fusion 14 Maple, and I'm pretty certain I got some positive feedback from (former?) owners about/of this guitar or one of its siblings.

The store sent a 1st delivery back for a neck default but OK'ed the second. I was too distracted to take it through its paces properly in the shop but quickly ran into a few issues back home.
There are enough badly seated frets that I get fret buzz over much of the fingerboard (esp. with rest strokes), and the intonation is noticeably sharp from the 12th fret up (a priori only on the trebles, but when I tried to quantify it yesterday the issue had mostly shifted to the wound strings?!) The bridge has also been glued on at an approx. 1° angle w.r.t. the centre line, which could explain part of my intonation issues.


I've been discussing those on the Delcamp forum at length, where several members have already suggested I should return the instrument by now but given the distance of the shop where I got the best trade-in (and current fuel prices) I want to have as many arguments as possible that something is indeed wrong with it.

So... to any current owners of a 640mm Cordoba Fusion model (esp. a 14-fretter) that intonates correctly from the 12th fret up: can you please post the string lenghts from nut to where the string comes off the saddle (for each string) plus the distance from nut to 12th fret if not 320mm?

Also, did you have much set-up work to do on yours before it played to your liking?

Thanks!

[Jimmy Mack]

I can't help at all in your situation. But when looking for a nice $1K - $2k range classical, recommendations for Cordoba are all over the place. I played few, bought one, and then returned it. I went to another store and played a more expensive Cordoba. I rejected that one too. They all seemed to have dead notes at the 10th fret on the first string. Drove me nuts, that so many of them had the same flaw. I did play a nice Fusion, but that wasn't what I was looking for. The C10 was the one I wanted. Also the 3rd sting on a few of them just had an awful growl to them, out of balance with the rest of the strings, even after a string change on the one I purchased.
Cordoba?? Keep looking.

[RJVB]

I'll admit that I too thought I could buy blind because of reputation, but I also checked with the vendor who claimed they had good experiences with the brand.

They all seemed to have dead notes at the 10th fret on the first string. Drove me nuts, that so many of them had the same flaw.

A wolf tone at the high D? That's surprising (unless the open D also didn't sound too good), but it's not surprising to find the same flaw in (almost) all copies of a modern factory-built instrument.

With all the time spent experimenting around intonation I haven't been paying too much attention to how I like the actual voice of the instrument. I'm not particularly impressed but also not very surprised with how well the higher notes on the 1st string ring (sustain). You'd probably need a (much) better (expensive) instrument and considerably better technique than what I have to make more of that.
I did not notice any wolf tones though.

[Woody Sound]

I had one and really liked it, but I wanted a thinner bodied crossover nylon.

[RJVB]

Can I assume you didn't have intonation issues, or had it set up properly by a capable tech?

(or never went beyond the 12th fret - I've actually gotten that question myself!)

[Woody Sound]

Can I assume you didn't have intonation issues, or had it set up properly by a capable tech?

(or never went beyond the 12th fret - I've actually gotten that question myself!)

It was great from bottom to top. I just wanted a thinner body. I actually wrote to Cordoba and asked about a thinner body, they said NO. No thin bodied crossover electric nylons would be in the planning.

So I went to Carvin. Awesome. I always get compliments from musical directors about the beautiful authentic Spanish guitar tone. (But you do need a decent clean "acoustic" full-range amp. That's the key.) I use Genzler, or sometimes Henriksen, depending on the gig. In my home the Genzler is always plugged in and ready to go next to the piano.

[RJVB]

I actually wrote to Cordoba and asked about a thinner body, they said NO. No thin bodied crossover electric nylons would be in the planning.

So you must have given them the idea of the Stage But your Carvin looks like it might actually have a bit of unplugged voice?

[Woody Sound]

So you must have given them the idea of the Stage But your Carvin looks like it might actually have a bit of unplugged voice?

I wasn't aware of the Stage model, it must be pretty new. I wonder how wide the neck is. Seems like a neat option to my Godin. But the Godin also has synth out. But I find the Godin neck to be a little clunky. Yes the Carvin has a pretty decent acoustic output for quiet practice, but plugged in it's fantastic, much more realistic than the Godin.

[Jimmy Mack]

I'll admit that I too thought I could buy blind because of reputation, but I also checked with the vendor who claimed they had good experiences with the brand.



A wolf tone at the high D? That's surprising (unless the open D also didn't sound too good), but it's not surprising to find the same flaw in (almost) all copies of a modern factory-built instrument.

Vendors do LIKE the Cordoba brand!

I don't know what you consider to be a "wolf tone". But on the 10th fret, the notes had no real fundamental, more of a "ping". What we actually heard was a bunch of harmonics (in D) but not the full sound of a D on the 10th fret while notes on the 8th, 9th, 11th, and 12th frets for instance, rang loud and clear. So if you damped the other strings, you'd get very little note ringing on that fret.

The notes on the open G string were loud and unpleasant, dominating any open string chords, like a C chord in 1st position. (a very popular chord) Ouch!

[2bornot2bop]

I own the Cordoba Fusion 14, in Rose. It was my first of now 3 nylons. Never noticed anything but spectacular playing with it. Nothing out of the ordinary. I never had it setup since it played perfectly right out of the box. I bought it new for $450, the going price for them 8 years ago.

[Woody Sound]

I own the Cordoba Fusion 14, in Rose. It was my first of now 3 nylons. Never noticed anything but spectacular playing with it. Nothing out of the ordinary. I never had it setup since it played perfectly right out of the box. I bought it new for $450, the going price for them 8 years ago.

Yeah, the Cordoba fusion was fantastic, I just wanted a body something a little thinner for my small arm. Still fully acoustic with pu, but thinner. The used Carvin hit the mark, it's a shame they don't make them anymore. Glad I got my used one just in time. I'm using the Carvin and the Godin.

Someone should come up with a reasonably priced nylon electric crossover for salsa, etc., THAT LOOKS DECENT.

[RJVB]

I don't know what you consider to be a "wolf tone".

I've had notes that sounded dead on violins, and teachers called them wolf tones or notes. From what I understand this happens when the instrument has an eigenfrequency that's (too) close to that particular note. IOW, when you play the note the instruments gets into a kind of sympathetic resonance and absorbs the energy from the string in a way that doesn't move enough air inside the body.

I own the Cordoba Fusion 14, in Rose. It was my first of now 3 nylons.

So how is the intonation at the 12th fret and beyond? Would you mind taking the measurements I asked for in my OP (and post them here )?

[newsense]

"I've had notes that sounded dead on violins, and teachers called them wolf tones or notes. From what I understand this happens when the instrument has an eigenfrequency that's (too) close to that particular note. IOW, when you play the note the instruments gets into a kind of sympathetic resonance and absorbs the energy from the string in a way that doesn't move enough air inside the body"

As a physicist, I would call that an anti-wolf note!

Sent from my XQ-AS52 using Tapatalk

[RJVB]

As a physicist, I would call that an anti-wolf note!

The name probably originated from the manifestation of the problem on the cello:
Wolf tone - Wikipedia

[Woody Sound]

I always thought a wolf tone was a loud uncontrollable note.

[RJVB]

It's clear from the WP article that it is an uncontrollable note on a bowed instrument, but if the string energy is absorbed by vibrations of the instrument you can also just get a "thunk" on a plucked instrument. NB: the resonating part could be the neck or some other part that doesn't generate sound.

[2bornot2bop]

I've had notes that sounded dead on violins, and teachers called them wolf tones or notes. From what I understand this happens when the instrument has an eigenfrequency that's (too) close to that particular note. IOW, when you play the note the instruments gets into a kind of sympathetic resonance and absorbs the energy from the string in a way that doesn't move enough air inside the body.



So how is the intonation at the 12th fret and beyond? Would you mind taking the measurements I asked for in my OP (and post them here )?

Sorry, it’s in storage because I play two others that are more expensive.

[sgosnell]

From the photo, it appears to me that your measurement is faulty. There is a gap between the paper and the bridge on the left side, but not on the right. The protractor does not look to be perfectly aligned. That might be parallax, or movement after being set, but it doesn't look right to me. As for the rest, I have no experience with that brand.

[RJVB]

I see no such gap; what I do see is that the paper isn't flush against the bridge on the left. That's consistent with the bridge being at about 89° instead of 90° w.r.t. the centre line.

If you were correct then the actual offset would be about double the estimated value.