New Kiesel Holdsworth with some QC issues

**Big Mac** · 10-26-2022, 12:39 PM

Hello all,

First, I want to preface any and all remarks here by saying that my intention isn't to create a "Kiesel Bashing Thread," as nothing could be further from the truth. I just received this instrument today and would really like some feedback, that's all. I'm wondering what you all think of the workmanship. There are some issues here that I'd love to hear your opinions on. For a $2,100.00 instrument, some of it seems a bit sloppy.

First thing was one of the height adjustment screws on the high E saddle hadn't been turned at all.. really no big deal:

Then noticed the scratch just underneath the logo:

Strange, but the side position dots aren't sitting in the middle of the fretboard, and the two markers at 12 and 24 aren't in alignment:

Now, the neck to body joint. It almost looks like there was a gap there that they filled in with CA. At first I thought it might be the transition from the gloss body finish to the tung oiled finish of the neck. But it seems like it's more than that; I see a gap there. Hard to capture in a photo. Almost looks like a bit of tear out..

So, I'm off to tweak the action. It's buzzing like crazy with factory set 3/32" at the 12th. I can stand my action a bit higher so I'm going to work on that. This is chambered and the resonance is a thing of beauty.. the open A string, especially, resonates for days. So alive feeling, it's beautiful.

Let me know what you think. Thanks.

**Big Mac** · 10-26-2022, 12:54 PM

And hey, just for s***'s and giggles I had a look at the same joint on my 2015 Rick 4003. Just about anything can look bad if you look close enough at it. Right?

**Bluedawg** · 10-26-2022, 01:09 PM

The bridge screw is an easy fix, although they should have caught that.

Maybe the scratch will buff out.

The dots seem OK, just a little low.

The neck joint looks like they put too much glue on the joint or didn't clean it up before spraying the finish.

I can tolerate stuff like that, if the guitar plays and sounds great.

But not everyone will put up with it.

It's your money.

We need to see pictures of the whole guitar, too.

**jzucker** · 10-26-2022, 01:22 PM

i'd send it back. Inexcusable for a CNC made instrument to have those kinds of issues at that price point.

**SandChannel** · 10-26-2022, 01:46 PM

The neck joint is a mess. They should be embarrassed about sending it out like that. All said though.... 2 grand is a chunk of change, but is pretty inexpensive when talking about a custom instrument. You aren't going to get Suhr quality QC from Kiesel at that price point. Heck, Gibson's Custom Shop would charge you two grand just to have a nice piece of ebony for the fretboard and you would still have a messy neck joint.

**jads57** · 10-26-2022, 01:55 PM

I’m in the camp that says if it plays great and sounds great, keep it!
But for some imperfections or non precise issues bug them to no end! I also have a Kiesel Holdsworth I bought used and love it sans the 24 fret neck displacement of the neck pickup.

**Big Mac** · 10-26-2022, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by Bluedawg

We need to see pictures of the whole guitar, too.

**Big Mac** · 10-26-2022, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by jzucker

i'd send it back. Inexcusable for a CNC made instrument to have those kinds of issues at that price point.

Thank you Jack. I was hoping you'd chime in here because you've been through a lot of guitars and have much more perspective than I do regarding build issues.

**Big Mac** · 10-26-2022, 03:12 PM

And here's the end of the fretboard. This is Richlite:

**deacon Mark** · 10-26-2022, 03:29 PM

To me these things are no big deals all new guitars have flaws you just might never see them. Nothing is absolutely correct and on except God. The big issue I see is the action. This is a solidbody guitar and therefore to me should be able to get really super low action and no buzzing. Sometimes that does take a bit of tweaking but a new guitar should be set up with no buzzing easily at 5/64 and 4/64 low and high E. You are at 6/64 and buzzing and that is not acceptable. Not sure could be the factory or final set up but clearly it should come out clean playing with the figures I gave you plus.................you should actually be able to go lower a bit if you want.

Bottom line for me is action. That can be fixed easily with a set up and if not then send the guitar back.

**Bluedawg** · 10-26-2022, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

That looks quite nice.

Would love to try one of those out some day.

Good luck with your decision.

**Bluedawg** · 10-26-2022, 03:40 PM

Originally Posted by jads57

I’m in the camp that says if it plays great and sounds great, keep it!
But for some imperfections or non precise issues bug them to no end! I also have a Kiesel Holdsworth I bout used and love it sans the 24 fret neck displacement of the neck pickup.

This kind of stuff is definitely an argument for buying used.

This is also why some makers have seconds or do things like Gibson's mod and demo shops. That way you at least know what you're getting up front and maybe even a discount.

**Big Mac** · 10-26-2022, 04:52 PM

Running it thru a Tony Iommi treble booster and a Weehbo JCM Drive into my '76 Vibro Champ. This guitar sings like a bird. I'm no good with adjectives but suffice it to say these Holdsworth pups are unlike anything I've ever played. Odd bump in the treble frequencies even without the Iommi, but very musical. Sustain forever. Bends on these SS Jumbo's are so smooth. I might already be in too deep here, folks

I'll let it further acclimate (just spent a week traveling from California to Upstate NY) and tighten the truss rod just a hair tomorrow and see what I can do with the action. Intonation isn't even close, but I do all those adjustments myself so no big deal.

**Gitfiddler** · 10-26-2022, 05:13 PM

Some folks can live with minor imperfections in a new guitar, especially if it plays and sounds great.

Others will never be 100% happy with it and will be bugged each and every time the guitar is picked up. The flaw will become magnified over time, and the feeling of regret may set in. For those types (like me) it may be best to cut your losses and return it while still under warranty.

**burchyk** · 10-26-2022, 05:51 PM

Could live with those issues but would rather buy used after seeing this.

Regardless, congrats on the new guitar! I've been waiting for one to show up in the UK in the right configuration for a few years now...

**icr** · 10-26-2022, 07:52 PM

I'd call $2000 a 'mid priced' guitar. Looks fantastic to me for the price. I'd like to hear it to. Big Holdsworth fan here.

**jads57** · 10-26-2022, 09:58 PM

Maybe call Kiesel and ask for a discount. Might be worth the call?

**Cunamara** · 10-26-2022, 10:42 PM

Well, I think send them an email with the photos attached saying "these are the problems I've noticed with the guitar you just sent me. What can you do to make this better? Repair, replace or partial refund?" Their simplest and cheapest option is the latter. and they need the feedback about their quality control and their guitar is going out the door for future improvement; if they never hear about it, it won't get better and more guitars will go out the door with problems.

I'd be happy with a partial refund if I liked the instrument itself. If the playability and tone are what I was looking for, these flaws would be minor in my eyes and I probably wouldn't notice them after a week. All of my other guitars look much worse (but they're all relic'd through use over 10-40+ years).

by the way, I think that is a very handsome looking instrument. I've been interested in one of these off and on, although I've always questioned how well I would get along with the 24 fret neck pushing the neck pick up closer to the bridge, given the kind of tone I like to have. But that might actually be a moot point and more in my imagination.

**Woody Sound** · 10-27-2022, 08:45 AM

I currently use 3 Carvin/Kiesels, have owned sever others, all awesome players. Neck and fretwork to die for.

**Big Mac** · 10-27-2022, 02:15 PM

Thanks again everyone for the feedback. There's a definite 2mm gap at the joint that looks like it was filled in with CA. Can't tell how deep it is, but it has me, rightly or wrongly, considering the long-term stability of the joint. This is a set neck instrument - in contrast to my Rick 4003 I showed in an earlier post, which is neck-through construction and any issues in that area are definitely cosmetic only.

**Jabberwocky** · 10-27-2022, 11:57 PM

The neck joint is the one thing I cannot deal with. I'd return it based on that one issue alone. I won't even accept a partial refund. Either replace or complete refund.The others don't matter to me.