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I find that there is too much of a tonal difference between the high e and b strings and the wound strings on acoustic guitars. This is perhaps more of a feature than a bug. Melody lines stand out and cut through more easily. But still for most of my playing, I'd prefer more balanced timbre across all the strings. Are there plain strings that sound less cutting, more mellow, somewhat closer to the wound strings? Is there such a thing?
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12-15-2022 11:27 PM
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The nyxl plain strings do sound mellower to me.
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I have always read all plain strings, regardless of brand, are the same. The only acoustic plain strings I have actually owned/played that are different are certain types of Martins... because they are brass coated.
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I had a thread about this not that long ago, and according to what I learnt there the above is basically but not entirely true. There are a few manufacturers of "swedish steel piano wire", and brands can request certain production differences in terms of few parameters like the annealing process.
Originally Posted by ruger9
NYXL strings *are* different in that they are made by d'A, for d'A so they control everything except for the production of the steel that goes in (NY stands for New York and I doubt they have a smelter there... but who knows). According to my thread they do sound different but not exactly more mellow. They're also ridiculously expensive, IMHO (per single treble string).
I've tried various brands of brass-coated trebles, even Optima trebles that are supposed to be plated with real gold (price suggests otherwise). If (and that's a big if) they sound different they only do so for a short time because that plating sits atop the standard tin plating, which very quickly is all that remains on the places you touch. I'm even tempted to say they even sound (intonate!) less good once you get to that point. Maybe that's just my eyes convincing my ears, but uneven plating means uneven unit mass and thus a string that cannot be true.The only acoustic plain strings I have actually owned/played that are different are certain types of Martins... because they are brass coated.
Now, if Martin has strings that are plated only with brass they might actually have a somewhat different sound ... but do we really expect that plating with a *harder* alloy gives a mellower sound?
FWIW, Pyramid also sell bronze strings, for citterns. Evidently they're for acoustic playing only (but I suspect that's what we're talking about here anyway) and I have no idea if they have wires that will support the required tension for a reasonably long time.
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I'd experiment with different picks instead.
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Picks help. The mellowest picks I've ever used are Taylor picks. They sound a bit too muffled but still usable. I find D'Andrea Pro Plecs to be a bit better for that mellow but not blanket-over type of sound. It'd be ideal, however, if there were more tonal options for plain strings as you still have a big jump between the wound and plain strings regardless of the pick. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
As I said above, in a way it's part of the design. Classical guitars also have tonal variance between the bottom three and upper three strings with the intention to give more timbre separation between the bass parts and the treble parts. But I think the tonal differences in nylon strings are less extenuated than steel strings.
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This. And gauges. If you usually play 12s, swap the trebles for 13 and 17. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I'm a big fan of the Martin Monels, if you haven't tried them-- though I have ben told they don't sound great on every guitar. I feel the set is balanced nicely, and there's not a huge jump in tone from the trebles to the basses, but I'm also using a mahogany top/back/sides guitar, which is darker/mellower in the first place (also using the Pro-Plec)
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For acoustics, I find that lighter strings are actually mellower. I do use 12's. I think higher gauge strings increase the tension and mass and they just drive the top of an acoustic even more (potentially with more overtones). Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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I think I had Martin Monels in one of my guitars many years ago. It was a different guitar. I might give it another try.
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Exactly. Thicker gauge strings sound more mellow, and thicker gauge sets sound more balanced across the set. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Raising the action so there's no fret buzz even at medium hard picking is also crucial.
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What is the guitar in question, anyway? Originally Posted by Tal_175
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It's a Taylor 412. I didn't want to specify the guitar because then people are gonna be all like "Yeah, wrong guitar. Taylor's are bright blah bidy blah". The thing is I actually find the highs of my Taylor's to be smoother than the highs of my Gibson L00. But this string imbalance is something I experienced in my other acoustics as well. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Partly the issue might that these small sized guitars have a bigger volume jump in the upper mids due to the more subdued bass which makes the imbalance more noticeable.
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If what drives you nuts is indeed in the upper mids (3-5kHz), I don't think any kind of plain steel string can cure that, other than playing differently (and closer to the neck), using a different pick, making sure you're not getting buzz, or ultimately switching to nylon/gut string guitars. On the other hand, the trebly, "zingy" sound doesn't lie in the upper mids, it's much higher, from about 8kHz and above, (like the "sss" of the cymbals), it's part of the "ring" and "chime" of new wound strings that eventually disappear. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Here's a Taylor 412 demo, I'm not hearing any problems:
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Yeah, Taylors run bright but they are not harsh or boxy, in my opinion. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Monels could be worth a shot...so could turning the pick around and use the butt end.
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Yeah, I like how it sounds. I used to have an 814 and 812 as well. Unfortunately, it seems like Monels also use just plain steel strings for high e and b. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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This is excellent advice; a much better thing to "chase" (having done it myself.). Picks ARE TONE CONTROLS. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Why are you guys mad at nyxls? They sound noticeably muted and feel softer. It's why I use the nyxl wound but regular xl plain for electrics.
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I agree with the 1st part (at least on acoustic flat-tops), but you need to be careful to avoid the jingle/jangle of those thin wires which I find very much not mellow at all. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Heavier strings indeed drive the top more (until they start stiffling it) but by doing so you get more energy in the fundamental and thus lose overtones.
Now, the actual sound colour of the trebles will be determined in (large) part by sympathetic resonance from the lower strings, and I agree with suggestions above that the balance across strings can have a big influence on how much the trebles stand out. There's a lot to experiment with here, including with using wrapped strings with different alloys aiming to bridge the gap.
EDIT: forgot to mention that Cleartone have a set where the wound strings are wrapped with, IIRC, PB for the lowest, then brass and copper for the G (and possibly D). Copper being the softest should give the richest overtone content, which should match well with the plain B string.
FWIW, Galli sell tape-wound steel strings where the trebles are also wound. The set is expensive and IIRC comes with plain wire spares for the trebles (for probably obvious reasons). Thomastik sell a couple of sets designed by John Pearse for classical guitar, where the trebles are actually twisted or braided steel rope with a nylon tape winding. They do sound a bit mellower but I find they also make the drawbacks of the two types of string stand out: jangly low on the string, and muffled high up.Last edited by RJVB; 12-17-2022 at 09:30 AM.
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Wow, I didn't know that there was such a thing as wound high e and b strings. That's always been my dream. I'm definitely giving these sets a try. I would actually like these on my electric archtops as well. Originally Posted by RJVB
Here is the manufacturers page for the wound electric strings. Not sure how well they will work on an acoustic but at the very least I might like them on archtops:
Black Nylon Electric
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These tape-wounds are generally sold as e-guitar strings. Not really certain why because they do have an interesting acoustic sound too.
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I’ve owned Martin, Taylor, Furch and Lowden acoustics, with different body shapes. My experience is that each guitar responds differently to strings and you need to try different sets until you find what you like for a particular guitar. Some suggestions for sets that are more even sounding with respect to the plain strings, which by definition means that the harmonic complexity of wound strings is downplayed: Martin Sp phosphor bronze (plated plains), martin monel, elixir coated. Also strings labeled as compression-wound.
Me, I use DR Rare on my Lowden and adjust how I pick to achieve consistency.
It is also possible that it’s a redundant fix. Especially if you find yourself searching for some very specialized solution. The guitar has a different sound on different areas of the neck. Embrace it.
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That has not been my experience AT ALL, but my experience with them was on a tele. Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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I just put a set of Dogal 80/20 Flats on one of my guitars and it has a wound B string. I am not sure how I feel about that. I like to bend the B from time to time and fear that it will break easily. Originally Posted by Tal_175
Years ago (1978-1988), I used the tape wound strings. They were available in those years from D'Merle (who owned the D'Angelico name) and Fender. The Fenders came with plain E and B strings, the D'merle set came with both plain and tape wound E and B strings. I found the following: A) The wound E and B were prone to breaking when bent and B) The Wound E and B were mellower sounding to be sure.
I had a Taylor flattop for awhile. It was impressive in many respects. But it was a flattop. The high notes of a flattop will never sound like the high notes of a Classical. But the nylon wrapped strings might split the difference. Let us know how it works out.
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But do the NYXL "plain" strings sound mellower than the regular XL plain strings? Originally Posted by Bobby Timmons
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