Ibanez AF-155 vs Godin 5th Ave Kingpin II

[rsclosson]

I have been using my AF-155 for some time now and it has been an excellent guitar for me. However I found a great deal on a Kingpin II with P-90s in perfect condition and put it on layaway. I have a deal with my wife that if one comes in, one has to go so keeping both is not an option for me.

Both are great playing and great sounding guitars. As far as tone, playability and action, I could be happy with either guitar. My only issue, and it is a small one, with the Ibanez is the thick poly coating. Of course the Godin doesn't have that. The thin semi gloss finish is very appealing.

Is this just GAS? Would losing the Ibanez for the Godin be a step up, a step down, or a lateral change? I am open to opinions and suggestions. The Godin is pictured in my Avatar.

[John A.]

I'd call that a lateral. The Ibanez is fancier, and arguably a higher-level, but the Kingpin series is hard to compare to other archtops because their whole concept is to maximize function over aesthetics. The main thing is that there are significant spec differences between the two (not better/worse, just different), such as pickups, neck carve and fingerboard radius, and wood species. The most important thing is that you pick the one you prefer.

[jazzkritter]

Agree with John, and I would add as a long time Ibanez archtop player do be sure the neck on the Kingpin is satisfactory to you. I tried several really wanting to like them, as I liked the look and design but never found them comfortable to play. YMMV so just giving my experience.

Here is my heretical stance on finishes.
I think the whole thick finish argument is a bit of a canard. Once you’ve gone past hand rubbed French finish, pretty much any finish is covering wood pores. How much of a difference is there? In the classical guitar world, the highly respected Jose Ramirez line has models that often look like they were bathed in some sort of gook. Yet they are on concert stages… go figure. Yet most luthier made guitars are finished by French polishing. Go figure.
Comparing the acoustic sound of my L5CES to a PM200, there really isn’t a noticeable difference to me. My belief is 1) once you start coating the wood with anything thicker than a light rubbed lacquer, it’s an irrelevant argument; 2) the real difference is in the attitude, not the ears, of the beholder.
But, I’m a contrarian by nature.

[DawgBone]

I ditched my lacquered Gibson semi for a thick poly coated Edwards/ESP that is in every way the superior instrument. Yes, I like the feel of lacquer more but it's also less road worthy. The Gibson had lost finish in many places, mostly along the neck, from hundreds of gigs and rehearsals. Six years of gigs to a full closet-classic relic appearance.

There is a tendency to turn guitar gear into a fetish because every player treasures a great looking, playing, and sounding instrument but at the end of the day it's a tool suited for a job. Cries of "it feels plastic-y" are kind of spoiled and annoying sounding (no offense intended). Urethane finishes are superior in durability. Show me a guy who can blind-test distinguish two of the same guitar, one with lacquer the other with urethane. Like the name on the headstock, it's mostly a factor in your mind. Don't dwell on it and it ceases to become an actual factor.

What tool suits you best for the job you intend to do? Only you can answer that. I can tell you without even trying either, playability and tone being mostly equal, I would keep the Ibanez. Beautiful guitar, classic styling, and rich humbucker tone. But I'm me. Only you can decide. Best-dawgbone

[John A.]

Agree with John, and I would add as a long time Ibanez archtop player do be sure the neck on the Kingpin is satisfactory to you. I tried several really wanting to like them, as I liked the look and design but never found them comfortable to play. YMMV so just giving my experience.

Here is my heretical stance on finishes.
I think the whole thick finish argument is a bit of a canard. Once you’ve gone past hand rubbed French finish, pretty much any finish is covering wood pores. How much of a difference is there? In the classical guitar world, the highly respected Jose Ramirez line has models that often look like they were bathed in some sort of gook. Yet they are on concert stages… go figure. Yet most luthier made guitars are finished by French polishing. Go figure.
Comparing the acoustic sound of my L5CES to a PM200, there really isn’t a noticeable difference to me. My belief is 1) once you start coating the wood with anything thicker than a light rubbed lacquer, it’s an irrelevant argument; 2) the real difference is in the attitude, not the ears, of the beholder.
But, I’m a contrarian by nature.

I've never understood the whole thing about finishes "breathing". On a hollow or semi hollow, the inside of the guitar is unfinished. If there's any breathing going on (whatever that even means), how much difference could the chemistry of the finish on the outside make when whatever vapor or who knows what are escaping through the unfinished side anyway?

In any event, plenty of great sounding guitars have poly finishes. Could some of theme sound better with a different finish? Maybe, but I'm skeptical. On top of all that, on many guitars only the clear coat is nitro; beneath that there are color coats made from some "non-breathing" stuff, and layers of sanding sealer or grain filler clogging those pores beneath that. Does a natural colored guitar sound different from a burst or a solid colored one? I really doubt it.

[Doctor Jeff]

I like Nitro finishes, but I don’t like the sticky neck on my es-135. Oh well.

I have a Peerless which I call my Cigar Bar Guitar, because the finish is impervious to smoke, fire, water, etc. I used to take it to our cigar bar gigs because I didn’t want my nicer guitars to smell like stale smoke.

Hint: the smell fades as time goes by.

I second what others have said. I love Godins, in fact have my eye on a KP2 right now, but it comes down to personal preference. I prefer the Godin satin finish, especially on the neck, but it’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

[jazzkritter]

Hey Dr Jeff..that sticky necked 135 of yours, what year was it built? I had a 350T from 92-93 that had that problem. Bought it new, back to Gibson three times but they never really got it right. I’ve read that was an issue in that time period on a certain finish. The. 350T had a black neck.

[rsclosson]

I appreciate all the feedback. I see which way the wind is blowing and I am very prone to agree. Whoever had the Ibanez before me, did do something to the neck. I suspect they roughed it up a little with very fine steel wool or sandpaper to cut the gloss. They did a great job and the neck really feels good.

Looks like I am keeping the Ibanez and maybe I can find something else to sacrifice for the Godin, if I get it at all.

Thanks!

[rsclosson]

My decision was already made when I went in to take the Godin off layaway. I took my Ibanez along so I could do side to side comparison. This really solidified what all of you said. The P90s on the Godin had more mellow tones and was missing the highs that the Ibanez had. However it is easier for me to cut the highs than add them in so there was really no contest.

Side by side, the Ibanez won out on feel, playability and tuning stability. Glad I decided to stick with what I know. Now I need to find another outlet for my GAS.

[DawgBone]

My decision was already made when I went in to take the Godin off layaway. I took my Ibanez along so I could do side to side comparison. This really solidified what all of you said. The P90s on the Godin had more mellow tones and was missing the highs that the Ibanez had. However it is easier for me to cut the highs than add them in so there was really no contest.

Side by side, the Ibanez won out on feel, playability and tuning stability. Glad I decided to stick with what I know. Now I need to find another outlet for my GAS.

Glad you are happy. Even better you get to be happy with what you have and save a few bucks in the process!

So anyway, sounds like a silverface Twin Reverb loaded with JBL's is your next order of business then.

[jazzkritter]

Always room for more GAS rsclossen!
Enjoy the 155, I still enjoy my 151, that whole series was one Ibanez should have kept around. Definitely a better guitar than the Indo AFs I think.
jk

[Doctor Jeff]

Hey Dr Jeff..that sticky necked 135 of yours, what year was it built? I had a 350T from 92-93 that had that problem. Bought it new, back to Gibson three times but they never really got it right. I’ve read that was an issue in that time period on a certain finish. The. 350T had a black neck.

It is an ‘02. It’s not horrible, but it’s noticeable. I tried to “fix it” with steel wool and mineral spirits, and as I recall I just scratched it up a bit and had to buff the finish out.

[jazzkritter]

Hi Doc…. Happy New Year!
Huh, an ‘02. That’s well after the sticky neck scare. Hey at least you’re not alone.
The early 90’s were pretty bad. Up and down the neck with regular playing and in about five minutes it felt sticky and hot…
Oh Gibson.
jk

[rsclosson]

Glad you are happy. Even better you get to be happy with what you have and save a few bucks in the process!

So anyway, sounds like a silverface Twin Reverb loaded with JBL's is your next order of business then.

If I bought the amp, I don't know what would cause my demise sooner; trying to lift the Twin Reverb or my wife.

[DawgBone]

If I bought the amp, I don't know what would cause my demise sooner; trying to lift the Twin Reverb or my wife.

Neo speakers offer a promising alternative to JBL's and definitely lighten the amp substantially. Are you gigging? If not I fail to see the problem. Heck I fail to see the problem if you are gigging. As for the wife, I guess I can't relate. My wife spends more money on gear than I do. She's a literal acoustic guitar junkie. I've had multiple unannounced guitars show up on my doorstep. I'm the one who has to regulate on my significant other when it comes to guitar stuff.

There is always a good excuse: Twins can be had at a great deal right now cause everyone wants the kiddie student amps. A JBL equipped silverface can be had at just over a grand if you shop. A Twin with lesser speakers can be had in the 500-900 range.

"Think of all the money I saved on an amp getting this gently used Twin" and " Besides, I took the Godin off layaway" said rsclosson to his loving wife.

[rsclosson]

Neo speakers offer a promising alternative to JBL's and definitely lighten the amp substantially. Are you gigging? If not I fail to see the problem. Heck I fail to see the problem if you are gigging. As for the wife, I guess I can't relate. My wife spends more money on gear than I do. She's a literal acoustic guitar junkie. I've had multiple unannounced guitars show up on my doorstep. I'm the one who has to regulate on my significant other when it comes to guitar stuff.

There is always a good excuse: Twins can be had at a great deal right now cause everyone wants the kiddie student amps. A JBL equipped silverface can be had at just over a grand if you shop. A Twin with lesser speakers can be had in the 500-900 range.

"Think of all the money I saved on an amp getting this gently used Twin" and " Besides, I took the Godin off layaway" said rsclosson to his loving wife.

Well I am trying out a Fender Champion 50XL. Going to compare it to my DV Mark Little Jazz

[stevo58]

If I bought the amp, I don't know what would cause my demise sooner; trying to lift the Twin Reverb or my wife.

Maybe she’d push you down the stairs while you’re schlepping it. “How to getaway with murder.” All the defense would have to is have the jury members pick it up once.

[DawgBone]

Maybe she’d push you down the stairs while you’re schlepping it. “How to getaway with murder.” All the defense would have to is have the jury members pick it up once.

LOL

The beauty of a loaded a Twin Reverb with JBL's or EV's is if your house is broken into and everything is stolen the Twin will still be where you left it.

[jazzkritter]

Or be a total idiot like me, replace all the iron with Mercury Magnetics, and double the weight of the Twin.
Sure didn’t think that one through.
Im safe though, no human can lift it now.

[rsclosson]

Maybe she’d push you down the stairs while you’re schlepping it. “How to getaway with murder.” All the defense would have to is have the jury members pick it up once.

That reminds me of the meme I saw on social media:

A woman is accused of beating her husband senseless with a guitar. "First offender?" asks the judge. "No. First a Gibson, then a Fender." she replies.

[jazzkritter]

I even put Jensen Neos in. It’s still in storage.
Even ms jk laughed at the closest joke…must be good)))