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Hello,
I am waiting my handwired Deluxe Reverb to be finished by a local amp tech, it's the exact clone by Tube Amp Doctor with the original AB763 specs, identical to the Fender 64 Deluxe Reverb (handwired). I am hunting for the perfect jazz amp, and I think the Deluxe Reverb is one of them, especially with it's original specs from the 60s. The previous owner made some changes to the preamp tubes (more Marshall kind), and the reverb/vibrato was added also into the normal channel along with a master volume knob added on the backside of the chassis. I decided to change all the specs back to original. In order to save some money, I made the cabinet all by myself, the dimensions match quite well, although the cab is 4 mm taller compared to the original DR cab (1,8mm x 2), the material is solid pine, although the grill plate is laminated birch. The speaker I chose is Jensen C12N that was in one of my previous amps, a black tolex Blues Junior, and I put the stock speaker back to the BJ. The C12N is a great speaker in my opinion, does some nice classic clean sounds that Fender is known for, and it is quite capable of many styles, not only jazz. I find the stock speakers in those black tolex BJs of every era to be a bit boxy although it's just my opinion. The Blues Junior is not my favourite amp for jazz, although it does jazz just fine. I find it better suited for blues and rock.
I am curious to hear your opinions how a (handwired) Deluxe Reverb compares to a solid state jazz amp, let's say Polytone, Henriksen amp or DV Mark Jazz? Roland Jazz Chorus 120 is not on my list, since it's quite big, so that can be outsourced from the comparisons. I find it to be an amp that is better fitted to concert venues like the Fender Twin. I think the Deluxe Reverb can still be a manageable amp to gig with, although it's heavier and even less portable than a Princeton or a Blues Junior. I remember a time when I had a Blues Junior put on the front basket of my bike LOL, it could be done.
Any experiences in owning both the DR and a solid state? How they work in a jazz setting? Probably the Deluxe Reverb is more versatile, but I see many do jazz with it, including Peter Bernstein or Jonathan Kreisberg.
Thanks for your input!
Here are some pics. The electronics are still in the hands of the tech.
Last edited by Epistrophy; 01-29-2023 at 02:27 PM.
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01-29-2023 12:12 PM
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This doesn't even remotely answer your question, not sure why I'm wasting your time posting it. When I saw Kreisberg he was using 2 amps, a Fender and a Polytone. When I talked with him on the break (a very friendly guy, I might add), he said that he felt that they each offered something that filled in the blanks in each other. That doesn't remotely answer your question, of course. When I saw Bernstein, he just had the Fender amp; I don't know if it was his or one that was provided at the venue while touring. An interesting contrast in tones: Bernstein's rather sharp and bright sound versus Kreisberg's rounder and somewhat warmer sound. They are two of my favorite currently working guitarists. I can't even say that I like one sound better than the other, it seems like they have gravitated towards tones that support how they play.
In my own experience, it is hard to separate the effects of the tone stack in the amp rather than the tubes versus solid state question. And of course ultimately that doesn't matter because the amplifier is an entire package and not just tubes or chips and transistors. If you EQ them similarly, in a band setting they just don't sound all that much different because there is so much other musical information taking up the sonic space. In my living room, the differences are noticeable but I end up liking them both, and it's almost a matter of whim as to which I prefer on any given day. However, if you forced me to only keep one of my amplifiers, it would be my tweed Deluxe.
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Thanks for your reply, Cunamara. One reason why Bernstein has brighter tone compared to Kreisberg is because of Bernstein's guitar type. The ES175 is a dark sounding guitar with it's mounted humbuckers compared to Peter's Zeidler that has a floating 57 classic in it. I think it's a 57 classic but I am not sure, I read it somewhere from some other discussion here that it is, a thread about the Zeidler that Peter owns.
This is Kreisberg using only Deluxe Reverb. I am not sure though whether that DR is the handwired version or not, likely it's one of those mass produced reissues. Great playing though. I doubt he stacks a Polytone in this clip below, although it might be.
One of my favorite videos, Kreisberg playing a Wayne Shorter tune:
Here's the great Alessio Menconi, he usually plays DV Mark Jazz:
Last edited by Epistrophy; 01-29-2023 at 01:08 PM.
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Having owned a Deluxe Reverb at the same time I had a Polytone, my view is that they are different sounding amps. Both were (I no longer have either) able to play any jazz venue and I could carry both for a good distance (though the Polytone had the edge in that regard). The Deluxe was brighter and had more sparkle, the Polytone was warmer and fatter. I liked both tones (with a slight preference for the Polytone) and went back and forth quite a bit, but I always had to adjust my attack to the amp when switching.
At this point, a Deluxe Reverb is too heavy for me (as would be a Polytone Mini-Brute) so I am using the latest Class D Henriksens. They deliver the Polytone tone in a super lightweight package. Going to a gig with the guitar on one shoulder and the amp on the other shoulder is a true luxury. Not as easy as a saxophone, but close!
If I were playing other genres of music besides jazz, I would want a tube amp in the arsenal as I do not think the Henriksens (like the Polytones) do rock/blues very well. I keep a Princeton in the arsenal in case such a gig ever comes up. The Princeton is as heavy an amp as I want to carry. HTH.
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This reminds me of the time, where I almost saw George Benson in person right before my guitar lesson many years ago. He was visiting my teacher, who is also a Polytone dealer in Chicago. He needed a Polytone to complete his stereo amp set up: Polytone , plus a fender amp. He was playing at the symphony center and the symphony center did not have a Polytone so he drove up to Lake shore Drive to not only visit his friend, but also pick up a Polytone. Apparently George has used a stereo set up for years tube fender plus solid-state Polytone. And why not?
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I play henriksens lately, but if a deluxe were more portable, I’d probably never need a henriksen. P Bernstein’s tone is a combination of the guitar and amp. He has always had a fairly bright sound on his other guitars. In fact the reason he liked the Zeidler was for the low end, not the brightness.
My solution is a bit of a compromise. I use a henriksen but I also have some pedals that give it more sparkle and tube-like response. The advantage of this approach is you get all the portability of the henriksen with more flexibility. My favorite pedal to combine with the henriksen is the barber barbeq. Another very good one is the wampler 65. Some people criticize me for not being up to date on digital modeling tech. I’m not curious enough about it yet, I guess.
PS +1 to StringSwinger on this topic as he’s very experienced in the tube and solid state world. We’ve talked a lot about this and have played each other’s amps.
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Thank you for your replies. I might go for a Princeton after some years but I will see. But a Henriksen would be a great option because of it’s portability. A pedal that adds sparkle to a solid state is a good option for sure.
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"....They are two of my favorite currently working guitarists..."
They're playing a short run of duo gigs next week at Smoke in NYC with Live Stream for those of us not lucky enough to get there in person.
Smoke Jazz Club - InstantSeats
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For me a big factor for tubes is that they sound different depending on the volume you're playing. If you have a dedicated tube amp to play with the band and that band plays at consistent volumes it can work great. Remember a guy with a Princeton hitting a wall when the (jazz) band got louder and all he had at that point was "medium overdrive", which barely cut through.
With Fenders my sweet spot is around 3-5 on volume which is way too loud for home practice. Even a black panel Champ is.
SS is quite linear and usually much lighter.
At the moment I'm experimenting with a tube preamp (Kingsley Juggler clean channel) into SS power amp (Mambo 10" wedge FX return) as a decent compromise. The combination weights about the same as a black panel Champ.
Another factor is the noise, SS tends to run quieter in my experience.
Last but not least, speakers make a big difference. It's worthwhile to experiment and find which ones work best for the tone you are seeking regardless of the amp.
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The Deluxe reverb is the ultimate portable Fender tube amp, that's why it's so popular, and also because it has a 12' speaker. The Vibrolux reverb is an interesting alternative, if one prefers 10' speakers. For smaller amps, I like the Princeton reverb and the Pro Junior.
From the solid state amps, the Henriksens come closer to tubes, but of course there's a difference. Polytones go for a different sound, and Dv Mark are kind of in between.
I went through many solid state models and brands over the years, looking for portable solutions for gigging, and my conclusions have been that pretty much all notable SS brands nowadays are giggable, and the sound can be excellent. However, it's the portability that makes them attractive, if not for that, I would only own tube amps, except for an acoustic amp.
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Originally Posted by Simon1234
Although that's Bernstein and Rosenwinkel, not Bernstein and Kreisberg. Hmm... "Bernstein, Rosenwinkel and Kreisberg" sounds like a law firm or something, doesn't it?
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I have been playing only SS amps for years now. I was in GC the other day and tried to lift a Deluxe. Um, portable? You must be kidding. Originally Posted by Alter
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I USED to think that a Fender Deluxe was portable back when I had a couple of them. But today, at 65 years of age, a 45 pound amp is NOT portable. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Man, you guys gotta start eating your Wheaties
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Ahh man! Good call. Sorry! No good deed goes unpunished. Originally Posted by Cunamara
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And I think a Vibrolux is like 46 lbs. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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After using Twin Reverbs exclusively for 25 yrs I'm back to my old '66 Vibrolux Reverb due to a knee injury. Feels like I'm picking up a lunchbox. Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Wait ‘til you pass 75. Even my 19 pound RE10 is annoying to drag around, and I’m in great shape. I work out for half an hour every afternoon in the gym in our building and I do a set of in-line floor exercises every morning that include 200 bench press repetitions with 10 pounds. We walk 2+ miles through our neighborhood daily when weather permits, and we walk 5+ miles a day whenever we travel with no problems at all. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
To be honest, I always hated schlepping my Twins etc. I did it because I had to do it to get the sound I needed. But today, I get it from my Blu.
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I'm in pretty good shape at 65. 5-7 150. Swim, bike, hike, canoe, arm and leg exercise machine, etc. But I've been lying on a hospital bed for the past week & a half, only moving to use the toilet a couple of times a day. My arms and legs now look like twigs. Got home and could barely climb my stairs or lift a drinking glass. (Well maybe that's an exaggeration.) Went lap swimming tonight and lasted only about 15 min. It's going to take a while to get back in shape, much longer than it took to lose it. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
When I was in high school & college I had a Twin and a Vibrolux. I had no trouble at all lifting them up and into the trunk or carrying them up stairs. God's honest truth, I have NO IDEA how I did it. These days even when in shape I can barely budge them off the ground.
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My RE10ER is 30 pounds and hasn't left the house in awhile. My RE 12ER is 35 pounds and hasn't left the house in years. Perhaps it is time to let those cabinets go to a younger fellow? My Blu 10 is about 20 pounds and I can walk quite far with that amp with no problem. Perhaps in 10 years that will bother me. I look forward to sticking around to find out! Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
I sold my Twin in 1975 and replaced it with a Polytone Mini-Brute after watching Joe Pass leave the Bottom Line in NYC carrying his guitar in one hand and his amp in the other (and that was an upstairs club!). But 15 years ago, I was carrying my 42 pound Deluxe Reverb to some gigs or my 35 Pound RE12ER cabinet. At 50 years old it just was not an issue. Getting old is a drag, but it beats the alternative (or so they say).
I walk about 30 miles a week and try to eat healthy food, but Father time takes no prisoners. My Blu 6 and Bud 6 showed up just in time!
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Woody, get well soon! Originally Posted by Woody Sound
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Congratz with the amp, Epistrophy! The cab is a bit crude, but hey, saving money is worth something and it will be just as functional.
I like the AB763 circuit for jazz, I turned my Guyatone Twin Reverb copy into AB763 as well (it was a later Silverface copy). Although lately I appreciate a bit more mids and a 25K mid pot is a great mod for the AB763 circuit. A Deluxe Reverb has a 6.8K resistor, which is like a mid pot fixed at 2/3 on the dial.
Another thing I discovered through experimenting with amp cabs and baffles is there is quite a bit of difference between a birch ply baffle and a particle board baffle. I find a birch ply baffle in many cases too stiff and too direct, which can add harshness. Particle board sounds a bit more mellow and spatious for some reason. But it's a matter of taste of course.
I am blessed with an old 60ies Framus Strato 345 tube amp that has a light/thin but stiff cabinet and relative small transformers but of very good German quality. It's more portable than a Deluxe Reverb but can go louder. The old Elbau 12" speaker must be pretty efficient because it has two oddball EL36 output tubes but even in my 8-piece band with horn section I rarely have to set it louder than halfway the volume dial. Soundwise it can do Blackface sparkle but also Tweed growl because of a very effective EQ-section with a resposive mids-dial. German amps from the 60ies are very underrated but do certain things better than the American classics IMHO. Best thing: I picked it up for $150, which is about 20 times less than a Deluxe Reverb from that period.
I have the feeling that American amps (and older British Marshalls), escpecially the cabs and the metal chassis but also transformers, are overbuilt and therefore heavier than they really need to be.
Real PTP-wiring inside:
Traced the circuit myself:
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Oh and I filmed Peter when he was performing in my hometown. He was using the vintage Silverface Deluxe Reverb of one of the local guitarists (Well, local then, he has returned to the US).
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And I have pointed several times to the UK company Award Session. They make a couple of very interesting amps: The BluesBaby and the 5E3 EXTRA. They are Fender Blues Jr sized, but solid state and very light. Optional 22W (Deluxe Reverb) or 45W (Pro, Bandmaster, Bassman).
I have the BluesBaby 22 in a lightweight (DIY) pine cab with a Jensen NEO 12-100 speaker, a little under 10 kgs (!). It does everything from Hendriksen/Polytone/DV Mark-type tones to Tweed and Black-/Silverface. Very versatile and a very tube-like response thanks to an innovative negative feedback circuit that emulates the interaction of the speaker with an output transformer (the true secret of tube amp tone and response imho). The 22 watts are really the same 22 watts in terms op volume as that of a Deluxe Reverb (and yes, 22 watts can be enough for a solid state amp).
Here is my BluesBaby 22 in action on an outdoor gig:
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It is worth noting in this context that Kreisberg doesn't want just any old Polytone. He specifies a 15" Polytone (i.e. Mini-Brute III, IV, or any other 15" Polytone model), see his tech rider: https://media.milanote.com/p/files/1...2019%20new.pdf As of last August these were still his amp requirements (I lent him mine for a performance and master class in my city, along with a '65 re-issue DR). Originally Posted by Cunamara
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