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Bob Benedetto is accepting a limited number of commissioned builds that he will come out of retirement to do. The price starts at $50k. Is anyone here interested? To say it’s out of my league is a gross understatement.
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02-23-2023 12:08 PM
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Wow. At a price like that, looks like to a buyer, retirement is out of the question. I've seen Jimmy D'Aquisto's for less.
Investment I guess. Never thought I'd see a Jimmy D'A as the bargain option.
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My contract does not allow to buy one of these guitars. That is truly and inside joke. Cannot say I will be buying one soon.
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Bob, along with his wife Cindy, have been quite good at monetizing his brand.
If 50 K is easily disposable income for you and you love archtop guitars, why not?
Too rich for my blood, that's for sure.
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For the people that have more money than they know what to do with. It would be considered a total loss in my book, (very little collector value and a regular player would never consider it) and that would have to be no problem.
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I agree entirely with SS that if you have the change to spend on guitars then getting a custom Benedetto for $50k is great. To be sure there are a number of folks with plenty of money who could simply buy a few from Bob and not even bat an eye. I recently had a discussion with well-known archtop player and author. He told me of a Wall Street fund broker who bought the Blue Guitar collection. He also bought a Dangelico NY from Rudy in New York. His comment to my friend about the guitar was that it was nice but he paid way too much money for it to ever sell it, selling it would cost him a lot of money.
The elites with money (there are a number of them) could wheel and deal with the most expensive archtops made and it is not much more than pocket change. The thing that keeps folks like me and others of modest means in this market is the guitar is our real outlet for joy, no other mammon distractions. I would assume that if I was worth 50 million dollars, I could do many things I cannot do now. Most of these would include traveling and entertainment, owning an expensive car and house, all the things that money tends to be used on for those in the bigger tax brackets. All of these would leave less room for guitar playing and pondering guitars and the sounds they produce. So in a sense I have a bit more skin in the game as a player and using them daily. I think though if you got the cash buy what you want.
Yesterday I pick up my L5c and played if for about 35 minutes. Then put it in the case and played my Heritage Ghost Built D'a for many be another 35 minutes. Finally I took out my Heritage Johnny Smith and played for another 30 minutes. It is not probably the most exciting thing for most people and certainly not world traveling. The house is livable, and the car is drivable. No complaints here blessed to have these, and the Lord is good. Buy the guitar you want and what speaks to you to play music because music is a gift of the soul.
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My Bravo is probably worth 3K. Add a carved top, 10K. Add bigger size and more ornate appointments, 5K. Add 7K and you'll have all the archtop in the world. Double that for what?
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If someone says, "Instead of buying a mid-range car I will keep mine and buy a Bob-built archtop for the same price," I'm not going to question them.
Creative endeavor is not grounded in common sense. We don't spend hours and years playing because it's a wise investment, or because we think we will become better than {insert name here}, or because other people want us to. We do it even as we acknowledge that doing it doesn't make sense.
Recall the definition of "jazz bassist": Someone who puts a $15,000 instrument in a $1,500 car and drives 150 miles for a gig paying $15. That's not quite me but it's not far off. I'm in no position to tell you not to buy the Bob if you want to.
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Maybe a little off topic, but I can't help thinking that if playing guitar gave half of the rush that listening to guitar or the seduction of owning the guitar itself has, more people would be playing all the time and there would be a hell of a lot more great guitarists in the world.
Just thinking...
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WWIII might be coming. Maybe keep your $ for supplies/security. But a well aged guitar should burn well for a fire.
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The Blue Guitar collection was bought from the Chinery family by The Archtop Foundation, which exists 'to promote the art, understanding and continued development of the archtop guitar.' The Foundation was formed to buy the blue guitars, to keep them from being locked in a vault by a private owner, and to make them available to the public. This is a much better use of money than spending thousands on a guitar for oneself.
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Oh, don't worry. This IS the internet . . .
Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Not arguing, just pondering . . . Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
People are built differently. I love listening to double-bass, I'm happy to own a pretty nice one, I'm glad to have owned my share of DBs and gear over the years, but none of that ever held a candle to playing DB. 45+ years now and every time I pick it up and make that noise the world narrows down to that.
Guitar, in contrast . . . I was a guitar gearhead for decades before I put any so-called serious effort into working on playing it (and my kind of "serious effort" is a joke compared to many other folks'). I see my hobby of being a guitar gearhead as adjacent to, but separate from, my efforts to move beyond being an Advanced Beginner jazz guitarist. I dig 'em both.
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Coining a great phrase! Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Points well made and well taken. And now I see Bob Benedetto as a great builder, but maybe even more outstanding, a great reader of the market and someone who sees a gold mine in his name. Originally Posted by Sam Sherry
I suppose he doesn't need an agent to know he can do what he (and say, for instance Mark Campellone) has always done, charge 10 times what others do, and as a result, maybe put a down payment on a new house.
Know your market, and play to it. Yup.
We go see movies with actors who get 20 million for two month's work.
What a business. What a business man!
Hat's off to you. I'll make do with my D'Aquisto. Ha ha
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I will stick to L-5’s. In 50 years I have yet to find something I like more.
Well maybe a Campellone but that is still a L-5 with another name on the headstock.
In the very early 2000’s I played a new Benedetto. Back then it had a $19K price tag. I was seriously underwhelmed.
Yes with Gibson and Benedetto you are paying for a name but the Gibson name delivers what my fingers, eyes, and ears need.
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A couple thoughts
First off, Bob is one of the pioneers of the American archtop. I do view him as being one of the most influential archtop makers in the last 50-years. His book influenced many and apprentices have gone to become some of the top builders of today. Along with John D’Angelico, Jimmy D’Aquisto and John Monetleone he is on the Mt. Rushmore of archtop builders.
That said, Bob stopped being a solo luthier after 32 years at his bench in 1999 when he closed his shop in Stroudsburg, PA. This was the extent of his career as a solo luthier. For the next 5 years he worked for Fender/Guild. After that, he spent 8 years establishing/building the current Benedetto small shop team and processes in Savannah. He left the business 9 years ago aside from the occasional visit and signing of labels, Bob has not been building guitars as a regular avocation for over two decades now. He has been a figure head, brand ambassador and teaching teams on his methods and performing individual aspects of building from time to time.
Given that, beyond the ability to say that “Bob built this” and any sentimental value to that, my I honestly don’t see the value proposition of commissioning a $50,000 2023-24 Benedetto. If he had been continually building, perhaps. Mastery is a fugitive thing, and requires continued time at the bench. I would much rather own a late 1990s guitar from his shop when he was at the top of his game.
My $.02
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Mark M,
Thanks for sharing the news about Bob's upcoming intent. I wish him and Cindy the best - they are fine people and a great team. Bob's Archtop book has enabled numerous people to learn the craft and continue the Benedetto design concept. His contribution to the Archtop Guitar is well known, and we have many fine luthiers today - such as John Buscarino and Bill Comins who were students of Bob's generous knowledge.
As a collector and investor of fine Archtops for 40 years, this would never be an investment that I would consider to seek a return. In fact , its likely to result in a significant amount of depreciation. If that's not important - than certainly consider it , you'd be buying a part of musical history. But I still believe other hands and support from Savannah would likely be involved - most certainly spraying.
In my opinion, and after playing Benedetto's from all periods, Bob's golden period were the Stroudburg PA builds- and they will always have the highest retention value because Bob' s hand touched the entire process. Even with those builds , rarely do they sell anywhere near the asking prices- which are well below 50% of the latest endeavor. Unfortunately, Bob 's Stroudsburg valuation dropped with the susequent license agreements/ Savannah and never really recovered in my opinion.
Everything after Stroudsburg involved license agreements and "less hands on". I would say second to Stroudsburg were the Guild Nashville Builds. Throughout the Nashville period, Bob was hands on, and both Evan Ellis and Mark Piper were building fine Benedettos........ Bob was present frequently. Bob once told the late Stan Jay that "Evan and Mark build the best Benedettos". In fact, they were both asked to start up the Savannah shop and Evan signed on -but Mark started Redentore guitars. If you can find one, grab a Nashville build. I own one and it's equal to other Stroudsburg builds that I've owned & played.
I've certainly been questioned for perhaps focusing too much on the investment side of instruments, but having a prudent strategy will enable you to build a fine collection - which can appreciated quite nicely over the years.
In my opinion , when your getting into big dollar colllecting, especially exacerbated by GAS, you need to exercise some business acumen and have a sound exit strategy.
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Thanks, Steve. It seems like my original post somehow implied that I am considering a new commission from Bob, but that wouldn’t even be within the realm of possibility for me. I just found it interesting and wanted to hear what this group thought about it. Originally Posted by QAman
I do recall consulting with you a few years back about a used Nashville Benedetto Manhattan, and you said exactly the same thing then as you’re saying now. I passed on that one because I would have had to sell my L5 to afford it and I wasn’t ready to do that at the time. No regrets. The L5 is sold and between my Trenier and my Campellone I couldn’t ask for two finer instruments.
I’m sure Bob’s offer will appeal to some buyers. Bob and Cindy and the Benedetto crew are all exceptional, high character people. If anyone deserves to get $50k to carve a new archtop, it’s Bob.
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I had the same impression with his Guild Johnny Smiths. But I must say I always withhold any judgement of any guitar until it's been seriously played for at least 2 years if it's a green guitar. A good, well built and tap tuned guitar is a work of sonic art but without a good playing in, it's never going to reach more than 70% of its potential in my opinion. That's why the irony of Bob building an instrument for the collectors' market is so ironic. He hand builds an instrument to do something very few guitars can do: Make music in perfect harmony with all the nodal lines made pliable to a player's imprint. It's a little like a professional ball player's baseball glove, built for its highest calling being one of profession. To be used by a professional. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
The irony being, to a collector, playing it that much seriously risks some sign of wear that will diminish its intrinsic value. And if you're a musician who is going to use it as it was designed, break it in and make music with it, yeah there're lots of those out there built by Bob when he was in his prime...for a whole lot less.
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It’s not entirely true he hasn’t built a guitar in 2 decades. A few years back, he personally built, from scratch, the top of the line Benedetto (were they called Manhattans? I don’t know, I have never played one and don’t really have an interest) as a personal GIFT to my guitar teacher in Chicago. For their decades of friendship. They go way back, he was one of the first to buy a Benedetto when Bob first started. He also bought Bob on to Fender a few years.
I don’t think that guitar got a lot of play, given poor health and also the fact that it’s not the Koontz guitar. I remember Jimmy Bruno sending him a progress pic of the guitar being made-Jimmy was interviewing Bob for his guitar school, I believe.
It reminds me that great players probably get a lot of great guitars for cheap as endorsers. I remember seeing my teacher as a Benedetto endorser on the website. Right next to Andy Summers! Who knew that Andy Summers liked jazz boxes.
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Mark,
It's always great to hear from you, and I'm so glad you have a Trenier. The Benedetto's are great folks, and no one has promoted the modern luthier built Jazz guitar like Bob and Cindy. Its a special story and I wish them the best. My self and others are just giving our .02 cents and viewpoints.
Bob and I were friends when he lived in PA, and I frequented his Stroudsburg shop in the early nineties. They were the good ole days, and the beginning of an Archtop Renaissance period. Anyone who attended the 5 Towns College shows remembers that special time.
It helped put Mark Campellone and many others builders on the map.
Sent from my SM-P610 using Tapatalk
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Always great to hear your $0.02, Steve. I always learn something when you give it. Originally Posted by QAman
Best,
Mark
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Here’s the announcement:
”We are thrilled to welcome an opportunity to a few fortunate customers to commission a new, very limited-edition collaborative effort as Robert Benedetto comes out of retirement to hand carve/graduate and assemble guitars in collaboration with Damon Mailand, Benedetto’s Master Luthier.
The project began with our Centennial Tribute to Lloyd Loar’s introduction of the modern Archtop Guitar in 1923. Bob Benedetto, who retired from guitar building to Central Florida in 2014, was inspired to return to active building on a small and very limited scale from his home workshop. Damon Mailand selected and pre-carved the tops, backs, sides, and neck blanks from our most select woods. Once in Bob’s hands the hand-graduation, binding, neck shaping and neck set magic is completed in Bob’s workshop and returned to Damon for final preparation, finishing, and component installation in final assembly.
Founder’s Series models will give the most discerning players and collectors one final, rare chance to purchase a new, bespoke guitar from the hands of one of the 20th & 21st centuries greatest artisans, with the quality control, customer service and brand integrity of the world’s premier jazz guitar manufacturer. Commission pricing will begin at $50,000 with lead times estimated at 7-12 months from time of deposit. 50% deposits required. A custom flight case is included in pricing. Contact Howard Paul or Jackson Evans (info@benedettoguitars.com, 912-247-4765) to discuss purchasing one of our current works-in-progress, or to custom order your own bespoke archtop.’
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Here’s the important part of the announcement from the Benedetto website:
”blibbity, blobbity, yak ....Robert Benedetto comes out of retirement to hand carve/graduate and assemble guitars in collaboration with Damon Mailand, Benedetto’s Master Luthier.
...Icty bikty bop... Damon Mailand selected [sic] and pre-carved [sic] the tops, backs, sides, and neck blanks from our most select woods. Once in Bob’s hands the hand-graduation, binding, neck shaping and neck set magic is completed in Bob’s workshop and returned to Damon for final preparation, finishing, and component installation in final assembly.
...Yakkity yak bing bong...
As a brand consultant, I applaud this smart business move.Last edited by Hammertone; 02-24-2023 at 03:45 AM.
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I understand your point and agree with you, but your use of Campellone as an example is exactly the opposite of the reality of Campellone's business model. Originally Posted by Jimmy blue note
Carry on.
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