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To those who have owned a lot of L5 CES or played a lot of them, what are the best ones in terms of SOUND and PLAYABILITY?
Assumptions-
I don't care about old wood or vintage looks, just sound and how it plays.
It doesn't matter what it costs.
This is a question for the true connoisseurs, get as detailed as you want. Write me a novel on here, I'll read it all.
Yes I know they all vary, but make generalizations by era.
This is for a hard bop sound, like Wes and Grant. I don't care how it sounds through a chorus pedal or playing modern/fusion.
I had a '49 with pickups added for a while. I've also had a 1980 Norlin era L5. I was amazed at how much better the 1980 is. Sounds better and plays better than the '49. A Norlin era L5 is an amazing thing to me, as I haven't played many L5s. People seem to think they are nowhere near the best L5s, maybe 60s or 90s are better? Maybe it's the WesMo? Or the newer ones? Where's the ceiling on this thing, I can't imagine there's a jazz guitar better than the Norlin L5 CES. So educate me if you've played a bunch of them.
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04-28-2023 09:26 PM
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This is going to get different answers from different owners. My favorites were the most recent Crimson Shop offerings under Phillip Wharton. Definitely not cheap in price either!
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Gotta judge each one individually.
They range from ok to good, to great from all eras.
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I love my '81 Norlin L5 CES. I made it better (for my preferences) by installing Seth Lover p/ups for a more articulate tone and response. And I added 500K pots to replace the widely varying stock pots. Plus an ebony bridge. Afterwards, it more resembled a 1968 in tone, that I really liked but could not afford.
The stock Shaw p/ups had an annoying midrange hump to them, that could not be dialed or adjusted out, even when the pots were changed. So please don't ever tell me that all humbuckers do the same thing and sound the same because they're ALL in the same "mold".
My left hand has no idea that there is a volute!
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The most "collectable" L5 CES guitars would probably be the late 50s and early 60s with the PAF pickups ... these can be quite expensive and some may have lost their PAF pickups when the demand for PAFs skyrocketed.
Sometime in the 60s they went to thinner necks on many of their archtops and IIRC laminated backs and sides.
Of the Gibson archtops I've played I prefer the Henry J era archtops from the late 80s to 2018, at least as far as bang for the buck goes.
In the end each era has some great guitars and some not so great guitars.
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I've owned 4 over the years. My best sounding one was a early 80s model stamped second volute the whole bit from a deemed inferior norlan period . Very resonate and alive. Some may not like that type sound though, it's so individual. Owned one from the 70s heavy and dead. Two montgomery's from the late 80s and late 90s both nice but not special. As far as playability they were all top notch and all needed attention to get them there, which I find typical of most guitars regardless of brand.
Originally Posted by JazzIsGood
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I never thought a big hollow 'jazz' guitar like the L5 needed a treble pickup, besides it stifles the arched top to a small degree. So, the Wes is my choice.
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Joshua Breakstone plays a Norlin era L5ces that he gets fantastic tone from. He likes it so much he bought a second just like it to keep in Japan so he doesn't have to travel with the guitar.
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Same boat as #7 above. I had a L-5CESTSV in 1965-66. Hardly ever used the bridge pickup or fully utilized the SV (stereo varitone). In 1967 I ordered a L-5C with a single Johnny Smith pickup. Used it like that until 1971, when I sent it back to have a single humbucking pickup installed. Used it like that until 1982 when I sold it and my amp. At the time I liked the sound of the JS better than the HB pickup.
Have been inactive ever since 1982. But in April 2022 I bought a 1952 L-5C and in Dec. I had a Pete Biltoft single Charlie Christian replica pickup installed, like the JS pickup, only a volume control on the pickguard. No amp at this time but would like a period correct (50’s or 60’s) Gibson amp.
Tom
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I tend to be a floating pickup guy, so in general I might prefer an L5c over an L5CES. For the L5c, which is acoustic; I’m sure most of us agree the best ones were made by the end of the 1950s. As for the electric ones, I’d agree with others that there are ok to great ones from every period. I currently have a ces and two wes from 2007-2014. All I can say is that they sound very different from each other and they’re all great.
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The “Best” is the one I’m going to own, someday.
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In 1971, when I switched to the single humbucker, I imagined I was copying what Wes had been using (he died in June ‘68). I wonder what year the WM model was first available?
Tom
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IIRC, the WESMO came out in 1993. Originally Posted by TAA
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I believe that soundwise, things can be altered somewhat easy by choice of pickups, strings, pick, amp and settings on both amp and guitar. Above all that has a lot to do with personal preference. Playability is not so easy to alter. Neck shape and frets are more permanent. I have a 1977 L5CES with almost fretless wonder frets, low and wide, whilst the other one 2002 has medium jumbo frets on. They sound pretty comparable, but in terms of playability there is more of a noticable difference.
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I have owned five L5’s over the years, ranging from 1952 to 2008. One of them was an L5C and the other four were double pickup CES models. They were all very nice guitars, and I have a few thoughts that might be worth sharing.
My 2008 L5CES was exceptional, combining all of the best features from the past into one guitar, built flawlessly with outstanding wood and great electronics. Those Nashville-made L5’s (both the CES and the Wes Montgomery) are probably the best value, typically as good or better than many of the more expensive vintage versions. Having said that, my current regular gigging guitar is a 1974 (Norlin) CESN, which I also really like. During that period, they had returned to a 1 11/16” nut and didn’t have volutes yet. L5’s from that era are reasonably priced and can be very nice guitars, which were still made in Kalamazoo by the same people who worked on the old ones. Mine is a little heavy (8.0 lbs) but it plays great and sounds excellent on gigs. My 1952 L5CES is one of the earliest L5’s I have ever seen with Alnico/staple pickups. That guitar is much lighter, weighing in at a little under 7 lbs. It plays very nicely and is very resonant, but I personally prefer humbuckers to the staples. My ‘63 is an L5C with a factory Johnny Smith pickup. Because it was built to be an acoustic version, it has a two-piece solid maple back. The electric models from that era often have laminated backs, which probably doesn’t make a big difference in sound, but they don’t look as nice IMO. Also, Gibsons from the mid-1960’s typically have skinny nuts, which a lot of people don’t care for. Mine is not too skinny, being 1 5/8”, but I would still rather have the standard 1 11/16” if I could only have one L5.
I think the nicest L5CES I ever played was a 1959 double paf model. It had everything just right, but be prepared to spend a lot of money for one like that.
The bottom line, in my opinion: unless you are willing to part with a lot of money, I would recommend either finding a nice Norlin L5 or a more recent Nashville-made one. If you go with the Nashville era, you have the option of either a CES or a single pickup Wes Montgomery. Although I have never owned a Wes, I think they are beautiful with a simple/functional design that sits right in the middle between the fully acoustic and double pickup versions.
Keith
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Me too. Except if it's just that sound you're after, L7's deliver it. My favorite L5 isn't a CES. I own a L5 Premier with a floater. That's it for me. But again, L7s just do it! It's that simple. Non-cut '44 BTW. Blows away Most L5s. Originally Posted by ptuner1
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If you only care about performance then why limit it to Gibson L5 CES?
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Personally I have yet to play a L-5 that was a turd regardless of the year it was made. I personally like the current Crimson L-5’s as they have thicker tops and a thicker tone which I like.
Basically the L-5 is the brass ring design. It is the benchmark of archtops. Basically copied by every builder. Some has improved on the design but most do not.
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That's exactly why I love the CES models, darker tone, more feedback resistant and I blend the pickups while comping as it gets rid of the boominess they can have when playing rhythm. When I play an electric guitar I want an electric built in pickup sound, I have acoustic guitars for acoustic playing. Originally Posted by ptuner1
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I own a 93 WESMO and a 2003 CES. Both are great guitars. The CES is more feedback resistant, the WESMO has great acoustic tone. I like owning them both. I have played electric L-5's from all eras and acoustic L-5's from all eras (including a Loar signed L-5). I have never played a bad one. They range from very good to excellent and I think each L-5 really does need to be evaluated on it's own merits. Personally, I would avoid many 60's L-5's due to the 1 9/16 nut and many 70's and early 80's L-5's due to the volute. Those features do interfere with my playing style, but many others have no problems with them. Originally Posted by vinnyv1k
IMO, a Gibson L-5 is the top of the archtop food chain. Once you own a Gibson L-5, you have "arrived".
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I prefer Alnico/Staple pickup equipped models from the 50s, but I’d never say they’re the best…they just work the best for me.
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When it comes to L-5’s there is no wrong answer to the year or model you like best. L-5’s rule period.
I never met one I didn’t like…..well except that sparkled glitter burst one at the mod shop. Yuk!
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In 1979 driving up to Chicago to buy my Barker guitar I stopped at Wooden Music on Lincoln Ave. Does anyone remember that wonderful music store? I happened to pick up an blond L5c from about 1953 and I played it. I clearly remember how great that guitar was. It was resonate and dry with plenty of clarity and punch. I had just bought me Barker and that was fine guitar and still is up in the music room. What I wish was that I had bought that L5 too is was a beautiful. But at 17 years old I only had $750 for the Barker
Never underestimate the draw, power, and legendary status of an L5. In 1924 is was THE GUITAR. 100 years later you probably could say the same.
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All Things Decay And Die
Robert Herrick
ALL things decay with time: the forest sees
The growth and downfall of her aged trees;
That timber tall, which threescore lusters stood
The proud dictator of the state-like wood,
I mean (the sovereign of all plants) the oak,
Droops, dies, and falls without the cleaver's stroke.
With Herrick's words in mind, the best L5-CES might be the newest.
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I didn't really dig sound/feel of the late sixties L5CES (69) with sharp cutaway. I owned and played one over a decade in the eighties, had a chance to try out another ten years later - and it just felt exactly the same - sounding thin in the high range (above the D on first string). Someone mentioned that this was due to the laminated backs of these models. I still own a 1970 L5CES with a good thick sound, but not as resonant as my 2003 Hutch built L5CES which is my favorite. The 2003 (the only one which i have bought brand new) took a few years and extended treatment (i placed it in front of a speaker playing nonstop music to vibrate the top for several nights) until it got its mellow sound. All L5s (several CES and a few WESMO) i had the chance to play over the years, (i guess about fifteen altogether) provided a familiar playing-feel and they sounded strong, bottom to top range, except the two sharp cutaway models from 69.
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