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My daily search for a used AFJ-957 or an inexpensive 7 string archtop led me to DHgate this morning. I've been holding off on the Grote 7 semi over the last week only because I'd like a slightly larger body. Measuring and comparing 1 to 7 spacing at the bridge with lower bout width on the web pictures, the Grote lower bout looks to be about 13" and the DHgate single pup 7's lower bout appears to be about 15". Since I have an LP 7, I'd really rather add a 15"er to the stable (which is where I started when trying to buy that Foster Basin Street about 100 years ago, or so it seems).
The DHgate guitar looks like another great beater with a better pickup and hardware plus a proper setup. But I can't find any reviews or posts anywhere about the source or the instrument. Does anyone know anything about it or about DHgate?
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05-02-2023 11:52 AM
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UPDATE - I just found a few reviews and impressions of DHGate on guitar forums I never heard of before (and which appear not to have ever been visited by a jazz guitarist). There's almost universally negative comment from many people who admit that they've never bought anything there. The only factual reviews by buyers were lukewarm. This one on everythingSG.com is not a ringing endorsement:
"I bought a "Jimmy Page" Les Paul from DHGate. Wanted something that kinda looked liek the real thing so I could practice my luthier skills. Paid $230. Meh. It was ok. Really did need to replace everything on it, hahahha. I was also disappointed in the finish. Could have been worse. I sold it without doing anything to it for about $100 more. Just didn't want to fool with it and now that i know, won't bother again."
Another buyer put $300 in parts into a $150 guitar and wished he'd put the money into something else. A post on ultimateguitar.com from screen name DylanHendrix sums up his opinion this way: "Do not I repeat DO NOT even think about buying from DHGate.com", with a litany of issues following that. And finally, here's a video about one buyer's HDgate experience, which he describes as "a sh1t idea". So it's back to the Grote for me.
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7th and 6th string look too close together. That's a red flag to me...I'm guessing that's not the only issue.
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There are one too many strings on it. Can't those guys count??!?!?!?
Tony
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True enough! But it looks to me like a bridge slot issue, since E1 doesn't taper out from bridge to tailpiece like the 7th string does and there's also irregular spacing between 6 and 7. This is not structural, and it's typical of the sloppy setup we've all referred to in these inexpensive guitars. If the body, neck, and assembly are basically OK, I'd toss the tuners, nut, pickup, bridge, pot, jack, wiring and (probably) the pickguard and tailpiece and substitute decent parts for them all. Then I'd level and polish the frets before reassembly, fix / clean up cosmetics like glue blobs between nut and fingerboard (which even my Raines had when new), and have a nice working guitar for those gigs that don't justify risking a good one.
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
There are those here who consider us bottom feeders, and they have a point. But I ask not whether the glass is half empty or half full before ordering. I ask only what's in the glass
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DHgate is just another sales site like EBay or AliExpress although it claims to be more wholesale oriented. I have bought things from there with no issues, including guitars. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
Like the other sites the quality of the product is down to the individual "store" but there are [or were] some reputable instrument suppliers on there.
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Nevershouldhave et al
My only experience ordering from a Chinese site about 4-5 years ago was less than disappointing. I believe it was from Alibaba. The guitar was completely unplayable and unsalvageable though I had counted on putting in some serious work on it. The return option was over my head and I wrote it all off to a bad deal and perhaps bad judgement on my part. Having said all that I am very intrigued by a Klein headless clone that DHgate have on site. This raises the question, how does one assemble info about an individual store on this site collective? As thelostboss writes above, he has had good experience with several of their sellers or stores. The seller of the guitar I looked at is "allguitar2017", where as the one you looked at is "guitarmusic store". Both stores have 100% positive feedback, what ever that means. How do you evaluate your possible buy? Are there others who can chime in of this conundrum of evaluation? is there some site where real customers have been able to leave a review on these different stores? Some other method? With my own experience in mind my last criteria would be looking at pics of their merchandise and believing that an order would be a relative copy of that picture.
All the best
0zoro
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I recently bought a soccer jersey from DHgate, and it appears to have been made in the same factory as the $140 jersies. It was $15 bucks. My son has been buying football and hockey jerseys from them for a few years, and the quality there is the same - identical to the super expensive ones, and likely made in the same factories.
That said, I think you have to look at DHgate as a reverb or Ebay type place, with every item being sold by a different vendor. I wouldn't buy a guitar from them based on how their jerseys or sneakers or anything else rates. If the guitar seems sketchy, I'd say trust your instincts. But go for the Flyers jersey if you feel the need Dave
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Hello nevershould
How has your search turned out? Have you made any dealings with DH? I suspect that if you have you dont have a guitar in your hand yet, but it would be nice to hear some news now that some time has passed.
0zoro
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Hi - Originally Posted by 0zoro
I haven’t ordered anything yet. After learning that DH is just another web marketplace, I decided to stick with vendors I can vet. I don’t like giving personal info and credit card data to a strange business in a distant land.
My inclination is still to follow Jimmy Blue Note’s lead and go for the Grote. I’d really rather have a 15” lower bout than a hollow Les Paul size body, though. I’ve been playing my Raines Tele 7 the few times I want to use a solid body on a jazz gig, and it’s very fine. So I keep asking myself if this is just GAS or if I really need another guitar.
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Probably wise. but one never knows. I have seen a guitar I would like to order, but the seller wants me to order from China. There are a few of the guitars sold through Amazon US, but none here in Europe. Amazon has a return policy at least but I personally do not feel comfortable with dealing with an unknown seller in China.All that said, one never really knows until an attempt at purchase is made.
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Amazon US does carry Grote guitars. But they’ve never had a 7 string when I’ve checked. Jimmy Blue Note says that dealing with AcePro has been easy & reliable, so I’m not worried about them. To be honest, I suspect I’m just concerned that I won’t like the guitar and be stuck with it. If I knew I could return it to Amazon, I’d have bought it already. Originally Posted by 0zoro
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I chatted with Grote, they said they don't make them anymore. Originally Posted by nevershouldhavesoldit
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hm... maybe the reason could be the archtop guitar is more difficult to make at certain quality level than jersey? Originally Posted by jim777
I recently bought a soccer jersey from DHgate, and it appears to have been made in the same factory as the $140 jersies. It was $15 bucks. My son has been buying football and hockey jerseys from them for a few years, and the quality there is the same - identical to the super expensive ones, and likely made in the same factories.
That said, I think you have to look at DHgate as a reverb or Ebay type place, with every item being sold by a different vendor. I wouldn't buy a guitar from them based on how their jerseys or sneakers or anything else rates. If the guitar seems sketchy, I'd say trust your instincts. But go for the Flyers jersey if you feel the need Dave
Chinese production can be of a very high quality. We already know that. But this production is usually more expensive too.
But in the cheaper segment they still follow the general principle 'imitate basic visual features of the original'... which means 'nobody cares about what is invisible on the picture'.
The exception could be the non-Chinese companies that have their production in China. But it is not the case I believe.
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My Raines Tele 7 is an example of the latter. Matt told me that he and Chris Forshage designed and spec’ed it and they’re made by a Chinese contractor. The woodwork is really fine - excellent fit and finish, precise cutting / shaping / assembly, and very clean work apart from one tiny dab of white glue visible in the seam between the nut and the fingerboard at the 3rd string. The cavities are all cleanly milled / routed, and the parts were fitted well. The fretwork was excellent. Originally Posted by Jonah
OTOH, Matt told me the pickups were high end (SD “Benedetto wind” neck and Bare Knuckles bridge) but they were both $20 builder grade Chinese HBs. The electrical bits were all cheap stuff, and the soldering was messy and ugly, although everything worked OK. The nut was cheap and poorly cut, so I replaced it with a Tusc. The bridge / TP was a cheap, poorly finished generic piece with rough string holes in the baseplate that broke an E1 on every gig and a B on every 3rd. I put on a Hipshot and haven’t broken a string since.
The 1st and 7th tuners (which looked like the Sperzels they were said to be) each broke a gear tooth and jammed within a few weeks. When the E1 tuner broke, I called Sperzel and they were nice enough to send me a replacement. When the 2nd one broke the exact same way, I ordered a new set (with a bigger post and hole in the 7th) and replaced the other 6. The posts on the ones I bought are shinier and have a slightly different contour than the ones that were on the guitar when I got it new from Matt. And they’ve all been fine for the many gigs I’ve played with them in the 2+ years since I replaced the tuners.
I suspect that the parts described by Matt both on the phone and on his website were in the specs but were substituted with cheap generic junk by the actual manufacturer. The Sperzels have the signature on them and look like the real thing except for the posts, which are clearly a little different. And I’ve used the exact same tuners for many years - they simply don’t break like that. So I suspect that the ones that came on the guitar are knockoffs. I even sent one to Sperzel under the assumption that they’d want to know. They never acknowledged getting it and ignored my requests for their evaluation.
So I’ve replaced the pickups with Lace Alumitones (HB-sized), the bridge / TP with a Hipshot, the nut with a Tusc, the original tuners with Sperzels direct from Sperzel, and all the controls, wiring & soldering with proper parts and workmanship. I suspect that the manufacturer made the substitutions, but I’ll never know. Even with the new parts, I only have about $1200 in it and it’s now a truly fine guitar.
So you have to take guitars made in contract mills as works in progress. If the basics are sound, and you like the look and feel, they’ll cost you a few hundred in decent parts and proper finishing / setup. But the well chosen ones are worth it as long as you expect to have to do all this to get a pro quality instrument with which you can gig.
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I got a bit disillusioned trying to find an AF… or comparable 7 string laminate to compliment my Palen. So I’m just having Benedetto make me a Bravo with the neck specs I need. I’ve been very happy with the Bravo Deluxe 6 string I have. Wish I got into 7 string many years ago, when there were a few more on the market. I collected enough 6 strings over the years to sell and mostly fund the Benedetto.
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A friend of mine has a 7-string Benedetto - sounds INCREDIBLE. You'd need to sell your house to buy one, though.
As for a cheap Chinese nevershouldhavesoldit - you don't want to be changing your name to nevershouldhavebought it!
I guess a Mr Wu is too expensive?
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I was going to write more or less the same thing. Haven't looked at what those Grotes cost but going for a Wu would probably still be considered bentho-pelagic I guess Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
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my Grote hollowbody guitar arrived yesterday,..£177...free shipping...no customs duty..think they put gift on box and value $100...10 days from China to England...anyone bothered about the packing...custom S
tyrofoam ..still in tune overnight..P90`s sound great...smooth frets....etc....
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Well it looks great for the price, and if you say the pups are good and the frets are smooth, then congratulations!
But - to be honest - I can’t help but wonder how they can do this without someone paying the price, so to speak. Can we discuss ethics without getting accusative and angry with one another? I just want to know how we can get a great guitar at that price without someone somewhere along the line losing out. But I’m open to being persuaded it’s all good.
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That’s why I have 16” and 17” solid, carved Eastman 7s and a laminated AF207 I bought new when they came out. They’re all excellent guitars. I’m closer to 80 than 70 and I can’t justify $5k+ for a guitar - I’m an optimist and planning to enjoy our dwindling nest egg with my wife as long as I can. I still gig, and most of the venues I play are not set up for easy protection of our instruments. Both patrons and other musicians have tripped and dumped drinks on our keyboards, fallen on my Ibanez, knocked over mic and music stands, etc etc. It’s a jungle out here, and I don’t even take my 17” out of the apartment because of this. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
Decent, inexpensive but gigworthy guitars from China or anywhere else have a place in my gear closet. I had a playground gig in a nice neighborhood with a great local band two weeks ago. It started to rain. I brought my ‘90s Epiphone Les Paul 7, which got my usual setup, hardware, fittings, and electronics upgrades years ago. No big deal! I still seek an Ibanez AFJ957 I can clean up and use on gigs like this. The Raines is also good enough to play anywhere but is neither valuable nor hard to replace. It works for me.
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I read somewhere that China pays for the import taxes and duties. Originally Posted by voxo
Nicely packaged (if you don't mind having to get rid of that foam of course)!
So this guitar has no incompletely seated or otherwise high frets, and no fretboard hump over/after the neckjoin?
Rob does have a point about the ethics ... it seems almost impossible that you could buy the raw materials for this price!
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All chinese electrics are equipped the same. Junk electronics, especially pots and switches. They are not reliable for money making operations without replacement. The pickups are mediocre at best and the nuts are always plastic.
You can play the "won't buy from China cause human rights" but there are plenty of sweatshops and underpaid skilled workers making guitars in Korea and elsewhere. China is just more ruthless and reckless overall but you can watch a tour of the Qingdao Epiphone factory, it's all the latest equipment and most of the staff has been there 10+ years or longer. Heard they moved out of that factory to Indonesia but can't confirm it. Probably started costing them more than they wanted to pay.
I personally started prowling for late 70's and early 80's era Hohner's which were Japan built to very high quality. No one wants them because they have the Harmonica makers name. They made some Martin knockoffs that rival or exceed the Martin, though they are fairly rare and still command some cash, though much less than a comparable Martin. I have a mid line 720 jumbo that I got for $400 delivered and it holds it's own with any of my wife's higher end guitars.
For the George Benson Ibanez lovers I would give this a hard look:
Hohner HG-815 1978 - Sunburst | Reverb
I'm all about used gear now. No point in paying new prices when most of the new stuff is just companies making shit to sell rather than focusing on making great instruments. How many different variations of a damn strat do you really need to choose from?
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I wasn't playing, just wondering. I don't have enough information (not opinions) to form a firm opinion on this. I've bought plenty of stuff from the far East. I only question and judge myself, not other people. Originally Posted by DawgBone
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I have worked in a couple of businesses that had their products manufactured to their own specifications in China; both worked on a 30/30/30 assumption. The best quality 30% of the product that came off the line would be packaged and shipped under their brand. Another 30% would be sold cheap to people who thought it was a knock-off that evaded our local duties and tariffs, the remaining 30% would be sold as no-name product. We pretty much paid for the entire 100% run and, while we were obviously paying over the odds for what we got, we were still paying less per unit than having the product made elsewhere. Originally Posted by Rob MacKillop
I have one Chinese made guitar that I purchased cheaply because it replicated something I could not otherwise get or afford and I can trace it back, with a reasonable degree of confidence from shipping documents, to the Chinese Epiphone production factory. I guess that a lot of this stuff is like the "foreigners" we used to do when I worked in aviation maintenance and repair. These were outside jobs that used the company time, materials, and equipment to do work for family and friends at nominal cost [in fact one of my bosses whose surname was Siemens used to encourage people to compensate his section with a donation to "the old seaman's home"!].
So, while I have no doubt that there is at least as much worker exploitation in Asian factories as in western ones, there is a strong possibility that the final costs are slated home to overseas companies that think they are getting a bargain with offshore production.
That being said I would be confident that companies like Grote who put their own name to a product are doing so in a legitimate way.
Cheers, TLB
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