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Tell me about the "sweet spot" or "sweetspot", is it a real fact or just something going on in my (your) head?
Can You find the sweet spot in any (every) amplifier? Tube or transistor - is there a difference?
Could it be that the sweet spot changes from time to time depending on the psychical environment like different rooms or stages? I have asked this question on other forums but never got an satisfying answer. Are there some amp specialists in this forum that can answer this question?
Tell me all about it!
Thanks!
/R
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05-12-2010 01:09 PM
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It's in your head. And it makes you play even better, as you mould the tone out of your guitar. It changes all the time, and sometimes can't be found, but lately, I'm getting it all the time since I found my ideal amp and guitar vol and tone settings. And drank whisky. I don't mind if the whisky is solid state or valve; if it's good, it's good.
If you do a live gig with a rock band in a pub, it doesn't matter, 'cos it all sounds a mess. If you play home alone, you get obsessed with the tone.
.......I'll get me coat.......
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Well, CosmicGumbo, have you found your lady's sweet spot?
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I think that there is such a thing as a "sweet spot," but i don't think it's dependent on the amp alone--everything plays into tone--the guitar, and particularly the playing environment. The same setup could sound great in my living room and like shite on the gig.
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Generally speaking, a lot of tube amps sound uninspired at low volume.
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Some amplifiers have a more easily found "sweet spot" than others. My Mesa/Boogie Walkabout Scout sounds incredible with all controls set to "flat;" my Bandmaster VM head always needs to be tinkered with, depending on the room and the guitar I have plugged into it. My DRRI always sounds good, and mostly needs some of its personality rolled off to fit into a mix.
Some gear just can't make it happen for me. I tried to find a way to get a musical sound out of the ZT Lunchbox with my 335, but it never happened. The SG, on the other hand, mated perfectly with it; when I tried the Club, the SG couldn't buy a tone, but the 335 sang.
The s/s is different from amp to amp, from guitar to guitar, from guitar/amp combo to guitar/amp combo, and different for every player. Guys demonstrate their killer tone to me, from time to time, and I keep my mouth shut ("You WANT to sound like THAT?" is the unstated question).
In other words, good luck. But I'm skeptical that you can find a setting on your Ibanez 7-string solid body and Randall stack that I'll find usable, or even tolerable.
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BigDaddyLoveHandles,
To get better tone at low volume from tube amps, can the power tube bias set higher ?
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But then doesn't that change the tone at higher volumes? I think that's one of those "trust your ear" things.
Originally Posted by medblues
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I heard that the major effect was shortening tube life and circuit board overheating. I guess it would be OK for some one who only practices at home at very low volumes.
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Changing the tube bias on the output tubes (the only tubes that have the provision for adjustment) is a bad idea for many reasons, including the two that medblues mentioned. ANY adjustment in either direction from the design center value will cause increased crossover distortion. Even if one likes distortion, crossover distortion is not pleasant - the "desirable" form of distortion results from compression.
Additionally, the amplifier manufacturer went to a great deal of trouble selecting the proper output transformer for the particular set of tubes and the optimum bias condition of the tubes. Once that optimum set of conditions is disturbed (by changing the bias, for example) then the amplifier will always produce less output power.
Of course I'm not suggesting that one shouldn't adjust the bias - that's frequently necessary with the lower quality vacuum tubes that are available today. But the bias should be adjusted in accordance with the amplifier manufacturer's procedure. (I'd actually take it one step further and note that - unless an oscilloscope is available - crossover distortion can't be optimized nor can maximum undistorted output power be achieved by varying output tube bias conditions.)
Getting back to the sound of the amplifier, best bang for the buck is a power attenuator from any of the online stereo outlets. (I'm not referring to the overpriced products marketed by musicians outlets - the ones from stereo suppliers cost about $15.) Pick one that is suitable for your amplifier output power level and output impedance and connect between amplifier and speaker.
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Sweet spot as in preferred tone? In which case, bass is always turned all the way up and the rest is fiddled around with until I get that particular warm sound. A bastards mistake? Possibly.
I am easily the most ignorant person on this forum. But by damn it, I try.
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RandyC,
I am also pretty ignorant. I was parroting what I had read from BillM et al in other forums especially BillM's opinion that factory settings for Blues Jr is so high that it causes eventual PCB failure and shortens power tube life. He offers adjustable bias as one of his modifications. Thankfully, for better or for worse, Blues Jr has a master volume and is pretty good at low volumes but my Killer Ant is much better. My question (I am not qualified to make suggestions) was to choose the upper end of the company recommended bias range and to see if this improves tone at lower volumes. I agree that an attenuator is a better solution than that. Another is a cab with a VERY inefficient speaker for low volume applications.
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medblues, I was mostly agreeing with you (except for switching the output tubes with the preamplifier tubes). There is so much HYPE about vacuum tube bias written on the internet (by those who have very little understanding of the topic) that I feel almost an obligation to bring a little sanity to the subject from time to time.
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I did perceive that your intention was to inform and I am clarifying my own thinking. I think you are right about the hype. I read your posts carefully, and with great interest. I reread the whole thread and could not find where anybody suggested "switching the output tubes with the preamplifier tubes" ? Perhaps somebody elsewhere (one of the HYPE generators) suggested it ? Thanks for sharing your expertise (as always).
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05-13-2010, 07:38 PM #15Archie Guest
While I am perfectly happy with the sound of my amp at all volume levels and am not about to go mucking about switching tubes, I'd like to say that this board has more useful information on it than all the other boards I visit combined, thanks to guys like Randy, lpdeluxe, and many others. Thanks, guys!
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My pleasure.
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Yes, the "sweet spot" exists in any amp that has some nonlinear behavior. Most amps do - whether from tubes, speakers or digital processors - exhibit some kind of behavior that seems special under some condition.
The importance of the sweet spot, though, is overrated (IMO). Far too many guitarists use the mantra of the sweet spot as an excuse to play their tube amps far too loudly.
FWIW, my own experience has taught me that I can get good sound from virtually any amplifier. I've performed through computer speakers (no, I'm not kidding; I showed up at a coffee house that "provided a PA" and found out - too late - that their PA was a pair of computer monitor speakers; I played to a - fortunately very attentive - audience of 20 people), through professional PAs designed to support high-volume rock concerts for hundreds of screaming fans (no, my performance has not been in that context), and everything in between. With enough practice it becomes second nature to adapt technique to get the best possible sound out of the amplification that's available. Granted, it's not ever the *same* sound. But then again, it's a sound that supports the music.
I used to be one of those guys who moaned that my playing was off because I couldn't get "my sound" due to real or imagined limitations of the gear or the venue. I eventually learned that a combination of practice, preparation, flexibility and imagination trumps *any* gear shortcomings, real or imagined.
In short: Yes, there's such a thing as a sweet spot. Ultimately, though, it's an overrated and indulgent concept. By all means, learn to recognize and exploit the sweet spot if you can hit it. But *also* learn how to play your best when you *can't* hit the sweet spot.
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Starting this thread that's what I thought too, it was just interesting to hear what you other guys had to say. Thanks! Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil
/R
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