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I have a Blues JR. live in NYC and can’t play at high volumes. I have a bunch of pedals because I enjoy rock, phish, blues outside of the jazz genre. The blues jr has the master volume which is great but yes boxy and can lack authenticity ya know?
any suggestions for home quiet-ish play amps that will nicely take an effects loop?
do I need a tube amp for the wah, Ibanez tube screamer, loop station, etc..?
if I do need tube, any suggestions outside the blues jr for quiet home play?
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10-10-2023 03:10 AM
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I live in a condo with thin walls. I have a Carr Mercury and my buddy in a similar situation has a Carr Skylark. They both have really nice quality attenuators built in. My Mercury is the older 8-watt model, but the attenuator lets me switch it down as low as 1/10 watt. It's pricey, but the amp is very high quality, great tones, and I'm pretty sure that even after ten years my condo neighbors have no idea that I've got a dozen guitars.
I've also got a Yamaha THR-10c that sounds surprisingly good for about $300. Has a headphone jack. It's so good for around-the-house playing that I usually plug into that instead of the Carr.
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For bedroom-level shredding I'd get a decent A/D interface (UA Apollo, Apogee Duet or something similar) and play directly into my computer , using the UA software or LOGIC for the tones. I have a set of small-ish
active monitor speakers on my desk and a subwoofer underneath and this setup makes playing along with backing tracks a breeze, it sounds very balanced at any volume level and looping etc. is also a non issue.
Less cables on the floor etc. is a plus ...
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Does this render wah, tube screamer, compressor all worthless or do these somehow interface into computer? What do you use to get started with this? Hardware/software?
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do these two Car amps mentioned complete with the Rivera Suprema Jazz Recording? If so how would you compare?
Originally Posted by Flat
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I couldn't say. I've never had the pleasure of running through a Rivera, but I know they are also very very good.
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Try to find a Fender silverface Champ from the 1970’s in good working order.
Hand-wired, single-ended, Class A tube goodness. As simple as they get, but what tone!
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I live in NYC, and have been through quite a bit of gear over a long time. I've never found a way to get a fully satisfying overdriven sound that no one else can hear. I don't think it can be done because I think a big part of what makes for a satisfying overdriven sound is loudness and the coupling between guitar and amp that can only happen above a certain volume threshold. I think you're going to have learn to live with some degree of frustration on this front. Originally Posted by NYC
Also, "boxiness" is mainly a function of cabinet size and loudness. There's no avoiding that in a small quiet amp, and I don't think you can solve that by going even smaller/quieter. I have no idea what "authenticity" means in this context, so I'm afraid I can't offer any solutions there either.
Some sort of modeling amp that can emulate an overdriven tube amp quietly might work better for you than the BJ (but will still be boxy sounding). I have a Roland MicroCube and a Fender Champion 20. For me, though, their main benefit over a bigger amp is portability. Neither of these has an effects loop, and I don't think many amps geared toward quiet home practice do. I do use OD, but I don't use a wah pedal, so can't speak to how anything works with that. Do occasionally use octave and looping pedals; don't think the amp matters with these. Originally Posted by NYC
The C20 sounds good with an OD pedal (it can also get loud enough to play with a band); with the MC, I don't use any pedals so I couldn't say one way or the other. The MC isn't made anymore, but there are other small "desktop" amps that do the same thing. A lot of people like the Yamaha THR amps.
No, you don't need a tube amp. You might prefer one, but that's up to you. If you want a tube amp that can distort at a lower volume than a BJ, the Bugera V5 is not bad. There are lots of other similar 5-ish watt tube amps, but honestly, nothing in this class is going to sound better than your BJ, and I think the best overall answer to your question is to keep the BJ and focus on finding better sounds with it. Originally Posted by NYC
Last edited by John A.; 10-10-2023 at 10:41 AM.
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Even 5 watts can be loud… SS respond well to od/dirt/fuzz. The problem is finding the right pedal for the amp guitar combination. I have a large collection of pedals and it is strange how finicky they are.
Typical a amp vst will offer a bunch of fx. You would need a expression pedal for a wha.
Over all I prefer a tube amp dialed into a sweet spot, but even 5 watts can be loud, given circumstances. (I also use a numbered of SS amps. They are different, and sometimes that is perfect).
I typically use my THD hot plate to get to a more usable volume. It works well, not great but usable. I have read that more recent attenuators that see the impedance of the speaker and can change in accordance to what they see work a lot better. From what I have read the Fryette PS2a is the best, if you need to haul it around. For home playing the UA OX has good reviews. I have no personal experience with either.
I find myself in a similar situation. I am leaning towards an attenuator over a modeler.
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I have a Roland Microcube. Great little amp, didn't know they weren't making it anymore. I put 6 AA batteries in it last year and they're still going.
I also have a Fender SCXD, which is a good amp with a lot of models that can rock out at a lower volume.
I will throw this in as my go-to home playing amp--An Epiphone Valve Jr. 5 amps of creamy single-volume goodness. It can get loud, but what's really nice is how it breaks up so well at a low volume. I had one and sold it, but realized how cool it was and got another. A bit over $100 if you're lucky on Ebay or Reverb (get a 3rd gen. model if possible).
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Tubes are a waste of money, get a LoudBox mini.
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Tube amps sound better at all volumes.
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Try a Two Notes Captor or Captor X
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A good way to make your blues jr sound huge at bedroom volume is to run it through a nice reactive load attenuator. The Fryette Power Station (PS100) and Boss Waza TAE are the best I've used. I prefer the Boss as it has studio quality reverb and other effects built in. Both units can quiet a large amp and/or boost a small amp to stage/concert volume. Amazing units. I play a 50-watt Marshall plexi (non master volume amp, aka freakishly loud) into a 4x12 cabinet several times a week and, with my studio doors closed, no one in the house can hear it except me. These units do not color the sound much or at all and give you cranked tube amp sound at any volume you want. The Boss unit even has a Fletcher-Munson curve emulator built in. Sounds absolutely huge. Pricey, but has been a game changer for me.
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Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Probably true. However, the diminishing returns continue to move the balance of the equation in the other direction. Quality tubes are getting hard to find. Tube amps are too heavy for most. Tube amps require regular maintenance and occasional overhaul (e.g. cap replacement) and if you can't do the work yourself, just try to find a good tech outside one of the largest urban centers. All the while solid state and digital have come a long way. They may never equal the nuance of an actual tube amp. Assuming that's the exact sound is you're actually after. But how close do the tube amp alternatives have to get before the advantages outweigh what has become a rapidly diminishing difference in usable tone?
Sooner or later it becomes pedantic. Solid state and digital don't have to sound exactly and precisely like a tube amp. They only have to sound good. And many of them do. So, yes. Shed the Luddite cloak. Get something with models and IR's and 18 types of distortion. Something that doesn't rely on 1920's electronics. Something with a headphone jack. And freedom to do whatever you please whenever the inspiration strikes you.
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"Better" is entirely subjective. For playing in an apartment with thin walls, tube amps have definite disadvantages. You can't turn them up much, they produce lots of heat, you can't use headphones with them, they take up a lot of room because of their size, and they're expensive. A modern solid-state amp can solve all these problems, while sounding very close to a tube amp. Something like a Quilter Superblock with a Toob cabinet, or any other small cabinet, can be a good choice for this situation. Having a small footprint, along with an effects loop and headphone jack, allows the use of any pedals one could desire, and takes up minimum space, which can often be important. Eveyone's situation is different, of course, but tube amps are not the end-all/be-all of guitar amplification. I have a big Fender tube amp, but I almost never turn it on, because it's just not practical, and doesn't sound as good, to me at bedroom levels as the solid-state amps I have. It comes down to taste, and everyone's taste is a little different. Practical factors can be more important than just tone.
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"You can't turn them up much"
I don't follow. Whether you're using a tube amplifier or a solid-state amplifier, 98 decibels will always be 98 decibels in terms of loudness. Therefore, if it feels excessively loud with a tube amp, it will also be excessively loud with a solid-state amp at the same decibel level, as it’s the output volume, not the type of amp, that sets the perceived loudness.
"They produce lots of heat"
The heat emitted by your tube amp will not impact your musical experience. Tube amps are built to withstand the warmth they generate. It's like saying you wouldn't enjoy a gas powered car because the engine heats up.
"you can't use headphones with them"
While many traditional tube amps may not have the headphone jack, there are plenty of accessible solutions out there if you would still prefer to use one. A multitude of user-friendly solutions such as the Universal Audio Ox Box present a workaround.
"they take up a lot of room because of their size"
Take a closer look at your gear set. It's the guitar cabinets that consume most of the space. While tube amps may be larger than their solid-state counterparts, the size differential is not as significant in comparison to the space a good quality cabinet takes. A larger cabinet for better resonance is a necessity no matter the type of amp you choose.
"It comes down to taste"
Agreed. What matters is the sound that inspires you as an artist. Some musicians like crispness of solid state amps while others prefer the warm, organic tones a tube amp can provide.Last edited by omphalopsychos; 10-11-2023 at 06:20 PM.
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Originally Posted by BBGuitar
LOL!
Most of the valves in my amps are original and have been giving great service since the 1960s. Good tube techs can repair anything, anytime it fails.
In years to come, other amps will be landfill including all the lightweight modelling amps.
True story!Last edited by Daddy Dom; 10-12-2023 at 03:12 PM.
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Great thread. So many options. I understand that there are many great solid state options for an apartment dweller. I have a Yamaha THR that I use for teaching and it would be a great option for sure. However, I was assuming the OP wanted to stick with his tube amp.
In my earlier post, I advocated for the Bozz Waza Tube Amp Expander but did not get deep into the details then. With no desire to ruffle anyone's feathers (If you prefer a different attenuator than the ones I recommend), I think it's helpful to share some more about the features and capabilities of this amazing unit.
First off, obviously the TAE can attenuate most any tube amp allowing you to crank the amp into its sweet spot yet give you full control of the output volume. The Boss/Waza engineers got this one feature perfect. No coloration (no tone suck) of the amp's native tone at all. It's quite astounding. I have used attenuators for my rock rigs for years and have tried them all. Most of them do not capture the natural tone of an otherwise great tube amp and end up being a waste of their $100 to $500 cost. A few of the higher-end units $600 to $900 do a nicer job but still color the tone.
The best of these units are the OX, Fryette Power Station, and Boss Waza TAE and cost $1,000 to $1,300. All three are reactive load boxes and have a ton of features. The OX and TAE both have USB and built-in effects. The Power Station and TAE, in addition to being reactive load attenuators, are also re-ampers--meaning they can also serve as a power-amp for a low wattage tube amp (like a Blues Jr.) enabling you to use your small amp on large gigs. If recording is your thing and you don't gig, the OX is fantastic. If you gig, you want the Power Station or the TAE. I chose to keep the TAE because it has all the best features of the OX and the Power Station and just plain sounds the best to me. I get sweet-spot power tube saturation at any volume I choose.
Here are the TAE's key features: all outputs have separate volume controls, a headphone output, studio quality effects built-in, multiple "rig" presets, a foot switchable solo function allowing configurable volume boost (killer for a single channel amp my my Plexi!), a direct out recording output with slots for your favorite IRs, stereo line outs, FOH line out, configurable effects loop, USB port (audio interface and control/configure the unit using Boss software), multiple footswitch jacks, MIDI In and Out/Thru, Impedance selector for amp output (4, 8, or 16 ohm), Two Speaker outs (run 2 cabs if desired). I'm sure I've missed a few features.
Bottom line, I like the TAE enough that I bought another one for another of my rigs. I have friends with OXs and Power Stations and they swear by them too. So, lots of options to take 20th-century tube tech into the 21st century. If you're not picky, some of the lower cost, passive attenuators--Bugera Power Soak, THD Hot Plate, Weber Mass/Mini Mass, Marshall Power Brake (that one is pretty good, actually), etc.might work fine. But I wanted the best sound, an effects loop, USB audio interface, and a headphone output for late nights so I prefer the fuller-featured ones mentioned above.
Hopefully this was insightful.Last edited by rolijen; 10-12-2023 at 08:38 AM.
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I’m wrestling with this at this exact moment. I just took delivery of a Quilter Aviator Cub to see if it can be a replacement for my Princeton Reverb. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
The PR sounds great,
but paradoxically can be lacking in clean headroom in some contexts and too loud in others. And it weighs a ton, which means I mostly just grab my little Champion 20.
The QAC has more clean headroom when needed and has a useful master volume, which solves the too little headroom but too loud conundrum. It weighs a lot less in about the same footprint, so it’ll definitely leave the house more.
But does it sound as good? I think not quite (so far, anyway). But maybe that’s enough, or maybe I just need more time to find the PR magic in it. There’s a 45 day return window, and I think I’m going to need it.
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"they produce lots of heat"
well, depending on the time of year that could be a good thing. I can't remember anyone that liked tube amps shying away from them because they produce heat, but I could be wrong. right now in my part of the country it's gettin to be 'tube weather' and I'll be saving $ on my heating bill
"And it weighs a ton"
a Princeton Reverb weighs a ton? Sure, it isn't exactly a loaf of bread, but it's nothing compared to the Vibroluxes and Twins I use. I think of it as extra productive exercise, it's just in and out of the trunk, my cart does most of the work. I could certainly see a PR could be considered heavy if someone has an injury or similar.
just joshin fellas....I think
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35 lbs, a ton … potato, potahto … Originally Posted by wintermoon
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a Princeton Reverb weighs a ton? Sure, it isn't exactly a loaf of bread, but it's nothing compared to the Vibroluxes and Twins I use. I think of it as extra productive exercise, it's just in and out of the trunk, my cart does most of the work. I could certainly see a PR could be considered heavy if someone has an injury or similar.
just joshin fellas....I think
I am old and enfeebled with the tendinitis of the cuff of rotator. I live and play in a primitive land with only walking and trains. I’m not familiar with the mysterious “trunk” of which you speak. What is this thing called trunk?
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In defense of the “Princeton weighs a ton” crowd, the modern reissue fender Princeton reissue is way heavier than an original pine cabinet Princeton. A pine cab Princeton is roughly 27 lbs. the new ones are 35 lbs stock. Add a larger magnet speaker and you’ve got a nearly 40lb 12 watt amp. That to me makes no sense.
for reference my 1964 vibrolux reverb with small magnet Jupiter speakers only weighs 39 lbs. a deluxe reverb with a small magnet speaker should only weigh around 35-38 lbs.
so yeah fender just isn’t making them right anymore. 35 lb is a lot to be carrying down the street but in my mind 35 lb is the weight of a deluxe not a Princeton. Don’t blame the tubes, blame the cost cutting geniuses at fender.
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Do they have automobiles where you live? It's that compartment in the rear of most automobiles that some people keep so full of junk they couldn't fit a box of cigars in there if they tried. Cigars are those brown things some people smoke that they probably shouldn't. Originally Posted by John A.
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Here in Oakland we don’t keep anything in the trunk. In fact there’s a free service in the city that smashes your window and cleans your car out weekly.
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