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So.. there are lots of good Direct Input (DI) boxes that will take your guitar signal (instrument level) to microphone level so you can plug into a mixer via a mic input.
However.. if you want to drive a PA speaker directly you need to get to either consumer line level (-10db) or pro line level (+4db). The level a mixer provides as an output. Does anybody know of a simple DI box that will take you directly from instrument level (guitar) to line level (either consumer or pro)? Would have to be an active DI (not just a transformer) since gain would be involved. Having it be stereo would be even better.
And yea.. some preamps will do this but looking for something a bit more basic.
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10-22-2023 06:12 PM
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If you want an option that has the added benefit of a strobe tuner AND has a high quality active DI you could consider the Peterson Stomp Classic.
https://www.petersontuners.com/products/stompclassic/
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That’s a mic preamp. Look for one in a portable format the DI input
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True.. I have a regular DI. Instrument level to Microphone level. Was looking for a box like a DI what would take it up to -10db or even 4db.
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To convert a guitar output to line level you need a preamp. DI’s Convert impedences; they don’t boost levels, which is what you need to do in the use you’re describing. There are devices that do both, though (many preamps).
Originally Posted by Spook410
Last edited by John A.; 10-22-2023 at 10:49 PM.
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How about this one
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Mic and instrumental levels overlap, partially. Mic goes lower, depending on the mic, and instruments can go higher, depending on the instrument.
Real mixers are generally accommodating, but if you're planning on going into a powered speaker, results may vary quite a bit.
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Going into a powered speaker. The ones I have are pretty flexible and will take consumer line level (-10db) like the level of a CD player or pro line level (4db) like the output of most mixing boards send to a power amp. They won't take instrument level or mic level.
I have a Grace Felix that will handle this fine but I'm looking for something relatively cheap that can go on a small pedal board. Preamps always have a lot of extra bells and whistles. I could use a small cheap mixing board (guessing Behringer makes one) but was hoping to find something like a DI format. The usual suspects like Radial Engineering (expensive but the best) don't seem to have it.
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An ART Tube MP might do the trick. Originally Posted by Spook410
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Hmm.. that might work. Originally Posted by John A.
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Tech21 paradriver di? Plenty of options there at all levels.
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For the money you're gonna spend on a preamp for that, I think it's just easier to get a PA cab that accomodates instrument level - due to the explosion of modelling you have plenty of FRFR cabs these days that can accomodate instrument level. Mine can and it's been a life saver - going line level can sometimes, depending on the preamp, produce a lot of noise.
Also, when there's a mixer envolved, I always prefer to go trough the XLR input. Even on very cheap mixers, the mic preamps warm up the sound a little and, once more, less noise/hiss than on the jack line level input.
I you really want a pedal, I guess this will make it
Line Level Shifter – Morley
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Sorry I’m late to the party! I’ve had and loved an ART Tube MP since the first one came out. The sound quality is excellent, it’s built like a tank, and it’s very, very quiet. There are two things to be aware of when using one. It uses a 9V AC power supply, which means that you can’t run it from your pedalboard PS. And the 48V phantom power is switchable - so if you’re using the XLR input, make sure phantom power is switched off before plugging anything into it that isn’t designed to use 48 volts across pins 2 and 3. Originally Posted by Spook410
I still have the original design MP, so I haven’t used the later ones with bells and whistles. But I can wholeheartedly endorse ART products and have never found any preamp to rival this one at any reasonable cost. Its max rated output is +22dBu through the 1/4” and +28 through the XLR. That oughta fry your eggs!
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these look suitable
Phantom Block
– Quilter Laboratories
3 ways to power them
(note it’s only got an XLR o/p tho , no jack o/p)
I haven’t used one ….
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Also, in this other thread you posted a picture where I could see an Empress ParaEQ and a Zoom MS70CDR.
Minimal Pedal Board
I believe the Empress, with the volume on 10, shouldn't be far from +4db.
And, from the Zoom Manual
"Maximum output level: Line +5dBm (with output load impedance of 10 k? or more)"
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And, from the Empress manual
"Boost: controls the output level. It is a clean boost, perfectfor providing gain before an e ects chain to minimize noiseor to overdrive the input of a tube amp. The available boostranges from 0 dB to +30 dB and is toggled on/o with theboost stompswitch."
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He’s talking about going into a powered speaker without a mixer. Neither a mic nor a guitar puts out enough signal for that. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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If the powered speaker doesn't accommodate mic or instrument level inputs you're exactly right. I should have made that clear. Originally Posted by John A.
But, my admittedly limited experience is with Alto and Mackie powered speakers. Alto has one knob only, which has a mic range (way up in volume). In my experience, it didn't work. The bass frequencies howled and the resulting sound was unsable. The Mackie has a switch for mic/line and it worked with an instrument level input.
What I thought I could do was come out of a Boss ME80 into the Alto -- but that's a -10dbu signal and it wasn't enough to drive the Alto without turning that one knob all the way up into "mic" range and sounding terrible. The new ME90 has an amp/line switch, but, apparently, it works at -10dbu either way.
My solution when the LJ isn't loud enough, to hijack a little bit, is guitar>ME80>Yamaha Mixer>Little Jazz>Mackie SRM350. The Mixer and the LJ aren't strictly necessary, but I like the sound I get. The mixer is there because I like the EQ on it to control the lows. The rig is too complicated and too heavy, but I don't have to use it very often.
One last point: Although the Alto didn't work for the application I had in mind, I've heard Alto powered speakers sound very good and they're inexpensive as those things go.
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I can't comment on your travails with that gear because I've never used any of it. My solution for when a 20-watt combo is not loud enough was to buy a 50-watt combo. My solution for when a 50-watt combo isn't loud enough is to pack up and go home. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Well said. Originally Posted by John A.
My situation was that I already had the Mackie, the mixer and the LJ. And, with them all plugged together, I could get my sound, but louder.
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Just wanted to thank you all. Lots of things in this thread I didn't know and I have a lot of experimenting to do.
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I have a Zoom MS-100bt that capably drove my Alto TS-110a. So does my ParaDriver DI (which can itself run on 48v phantom power, a very handy capability).
In addition to running a powered speaker from them, I've also use them to go direct to the PA at gigs and skip to having an amp altogether; for that, the Zoom was a little bit better, because it was a one box solution: amp/speaker modeling, EQ, reverbs/delay and other effects (which I don't actually use). Using only the PDDI was *extremely* dry; a reverb pedal in front of it is probably not a bad idea.
I also have the original model ART TubeMP, but I don't recall using that as a DI into a PA or powered speaker much. The lack of any kind of EQ didn't work as well going into my Alto powered speaker as my other two options did. Going into a PA would allow the use of EQ on the board. People on the forum here have used it in front of a analog to digital converter going into a DAW with really nice sounding results. I put it in the effects loop on my Clarus 2r for a while and it did really help warm things up.Last edited by Cunamara; 10-26-2023 at 07:16 PM.
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It turns out that for my application I was asking the wrong question. To plug into the powered speakers I have (Yamaha, Schertler) the line level (instrument level) from a guitar pedal works just fine. Thing is.. it's going to be noisy. Especially if you run more than 10 feet or so. Therefore what I need is not a way to convert to consumer or pro line level or a DI, which converts to a balanced microphone level. What I need is a Line Isolator (LI) which converts my guitar line level out from a pedal to a balanced Line Level.
Walrus makes these as does Pinstripe Pedals. They are a bit pricey.
However.. it turns out that the JOYO Cab Sim pedal I just bought to screw around with has a balanced Line Out. They say it's a DI, but it's not. Too hot for a mic input. Works just fine into a powered speaker.
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Yeah, the Walrus and the Pinstripe are expensive (as are the Radial, probably the most famous DIs). I used a Stereo Art DI (cheap on Thomann) for a long time and worked as a charm.
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