Would this 10 string guitar work in a jazz band context?

[jazznylon]

I have a 10 string classical guitar and I love playing it but it can't cut through in a band context even while amplified so I'm looking for other possible alternatives. Namely this guitar catches my eye Agile Pendulum Pro 102730 EB CA Satin Blue / Purple Burl



Here are the details from the website

THE AGILE PENDULUM MULTI-SCALE GUITAR - NOW AVAILABLE IN A 10 STRING BURL TOP VERSION!
Multi-scale design with scale range of 27" to 30"
Angled nut and pickup for improved intonation and sound
5 piece neck through design with ebony fingerboard
Dual truss rod for added stability
Angled Cepheus 11 active pickup
Cepheus fixed bridge with individual saddle adjustments
Gorgeous burl maple top.
Mahogany body
Maple neck
Ebony fretboard with no markers - position markers are located on the side of the neck
24 extra jumbo 2.9 mm frets and a 13.7" (350 mm) radius neck for fast play
Grover die cast tuners
Measurements

Overall length: 43 1/2"
Body length: 17 3/4"
Width: 11 5/8"
Radius: 15"
Width of the neck at the nut: 3 1/8”
Width of the neck at the 12th fret: 3 3/8"
Width of the neck at the 24th fret: 3 13/16"
Thickness of the neck at the nut: 7/8"
Thickness of the neck at the 12th fret: 7/8"
String spacing at the nut: 1/4" (2 11/16" overall)
String spacing at the bridge: 3/8" (4 3/16" overall)
Pickup dimensions: 5 3/8" x 1 3/8"
String gauges: .009, .012, .015, .022, .030, .040, .054, .074 .090, .110
Weight: only 11 pounds
Guitar is set up to be tuned to G#, C#, F#and B for the lower 4 strings, followed by the standard 6 string guitar tuning on the upper strings (E, A, D, G, B, E) - however a variety of tunings is possible.

I don't know much about electric guitars but I wonder if this would work at all in a jazz group context (with drummer, bass, sax). Not to mention I play only fingerstyle so I would have to look for certain strings that won't shred my nails while playing. Would flatwound strings work on this thing? Also for reference the amp I use is the Roland JC-120 Jazz Chorus

[pcjazz]

If there's a bass player s/he wouldn't thank you for bringing a low-strung ten-string. Otherwise, it depends on the kind of music you plan to play.

[jazznylon]

If there's a bass player s/he wouldn't thank you for bringing a low-strung ten-string. Otherwise, it depends on the kind of music you plan to play.

I'm planning to have a high ab above e and the lowest string ab below e. Nothing too dramatic like having a G#0 for a bass string lol. Of course I won't be delving it there anyways when I have a bass player with me. So it depends on the situation. Would this guitar work for playing standards?

[Jimmy blue note]

That can be a lot of sympathetic vibration to deal with. I think you'd need to redefine your role in the ensemble to realize the potential. That's a full range instrument playing in a niche that's traditionally defined within a certain range.
Do you know many two piano bands? It becomes a delicate balancing act. Charlie Hunter has an extended range instrument. Check him out.
I worked on a number of extended range guitars and basses. Try it out first. One unwanted or unforseen side effect is shoulder and back problems. They're REALLY heavy.
Good luck.

[jazznylon]

That can be a lot of sympathetic vibration to deal with. I think you'd need to redefine your role in the ensemble to realize the potential. That's a full range instrument playing in a niche that's traditionally defined within a certain range.
Do you know many two piano bands? It becomes a delicate balancing act. Charlie Hunter has an extended range instrument. Check him out.
I worked on a number of extended range guitars and basses. Try it out first. One unwanted or unforseen side effect is shoulder and back problems. They're REALLY heavy.
Good luck.

Charlie Hunter is a boss! But thanks for your insight, I'm just looking for multiple informed opinions before I possibly take the plunge (or not) with this beast.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

To be honest, it depends entirely on your skill level, your style, and how well you listen and respond to the rest of the band in real time. Too many guitarists play too much on 6 string instruments, so ithe number of strings you have is not related to how well your playing works in a jazz band. Having said that, an instrument like the one you're considering requires a high level of both musicianship and playing skill to "tame". Depending on the makeup of the band, there are innumerable ways to clutter it up with a 10 string. But a player with great taste, jdugment, chops and ears can make it sound great in any context.

The bottom line is one of my all time favorite sayings: it ain't what you play, it's how you play it.

[RyanM]

What kind of pickup and preamp are you using for the classical?

[mr. beaumont]

Personally, I don't like the idea of an extended range guitar in a jazz context...but I guess it depends on the group's instrumentation overall.

A lot of times I'm playing 2 and three note chords if there's a bass, piano, horn...sounding good is often an understanding of how not to step on each others "sonic territory."

Charlie Hunter's 8 string works because he's the guitar player AND the bassist in his groups.

[jazznylon]

To be honest, it depends entirely on your skill level, your style, and how well you listen and respond to the rest of the band in real time. Too many guitarists play too much on 6 string instruments, so ithe number of strings you have is not related to how well your playing works in a jazz band. Having said that, an instrument like the one you're considering requires a high level of both musicianship and playing skill to "tame". Depending on the makeup of the band, there are innumerable ways to clutter it up with a 10 string. But a player with great taste, jdugment, chops and ears can make it sound great in any context.

The bottom line is one of my all time favorite sayings: it ain't what you play, it's how you play it.

I agree with this. It really doesn't matter how many strings one has. If there is a 1 string guitar out there in the wild I would totally buy it. Anyways I like the 10 string for its ridiculousness factor, and having more range is always nice. No more strings though after 10 as I like having the ab for the lowest and highest string.

What kind of pickup and preamp are you using for the classical?

I use the cling on pickup (you can search it on google). Its a magnetic pickup that doesn't need any drilling. Honestly my experience on it has been pretty mid as its relatively easy for it to fall off the guitar. I never used a preamp

[jazznylon]

Personally, I don't like the idea of an extended range guitar in a jazz context...but I guess it depends on the group's instrumentation overall.

A lot of times I'm playing 2 and three note chords if there's a bass, piano, horn...sounding good is often an understanding of how not to step on each others "sonic territory."

Charlie Hunter's 8 string works because he's the guitar player AND the bassist in his groups.

Understandable. Thats a reasonable way to go about it (or rather the only way pretty much)

[AllanAllen]

You gonna get a funny beard to go along with it? You ready to be the butt of a constant stream of jokes? It's a gimmick and you're going to be the punchline.

You're going to have to win over EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. who sees you pull that out.

[jazznylon]

You gonna get a funny beard to go along with it? You ready to be the butt of a constant stream of jokes? It's a gimmick and you're going to be the punchline.

You're going to have to win over EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. who sees you pull that out.

That is definitedly something to consider. I don't like having to prove anything to anyone

[pamosmusic]

Personally, I don't like the idea of an extended range guitar in a jazz context...but I guess it depends on the group's instrumentation overall.

A lot of times I'm playing 2 and three note chords if there's a bass, piano, horn...sounding good is often an understanding of how not to step on each others "sonic territory."

Charlie Hunter's 8 string works because he's the guitar player AND the bassist in his groups.

Yeah I could probably play an entire quartet gig with only the top four strings and not even really notice.

[pamosmusic]

You're going to have to win over EVERY. SINGLE. PERSON. who sees you pull that out.

Kind of harsh but not wrong.

I might liken this to hiring a piano player for a quartet and having them show up with a full Hammond organ. It’s kind of visually not what everyone expects and also I’m immediately going to be a bit put out because it’s not what I wanted. On top of which I’m going to be super wary of them trampling all over the bass players register with the foot pedals.

Sure you could just play normal piano register stuff on an organ, but all that firepower would make me nervous. Does this dude have the restraint to actually do this?

Its kind of a goofy example because when would that ever happen?

To which I say …. Exactly.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah I could probably play an entire quartet gig with only the top four strings and not even really notice.

How Tiny Grimes of you

[AllanAllen]

I wasn’t trying to be harsh. I just think the initial reaction is going to be eye rolls at a 10 string shredder guitar in a jazz quartet.

On top of that it’s tuned in 3rds, which he’s also going to have to defend with words, chops or both.

[pamosmusic]

I wasn’t trying to be harsh. I just think the initial reaction is going to be eye rolls at a 10 string shredder guitar in a jazz quartet.

On top of that it’s tuned in 3rds, which he’s also going to have to defend with words, chops or both.

Like I said … you’re not wrong.

I have a buddy who says part of being a professional is bringing the right tool for the gig. You can make just about anything work, but coming with a quality version of the standard tool is going to put people at ease. Coming with something very different is going to make people uncomfortable. It suggests you don’t know what you’re doing. You absolutely might know what you’re doing, but you’re going to have to prove you do.

It’s honestly kind of reasonable to be suspicious in that situation.

[Christian Miller]

Haha sometimes it seems like the 6 string guitar has too much range for a jazz context haha

I think of Charlie hunter when I see axes like that. He plays the bass role in the bands he’s in. But he plays a 7 string guitar now (used to be a 6)

Also ant law with Tim garland used an 8 string but again there was no bass in that band…. I’m sure there’s others.

[pamosmusic]

Actually I got side eye the last time I played with a big band when I pulled out my black telecaster. It’s absolutely the right tool for the gig but doesn’t necessarily look it. And that’s enough to get a raised eyebrow.

[Christian Miller]

Actually I got side eye the last time I played with a big band when I pulled out my black telecaster. It’s absolutely the right tool for the gig but doesn’t necessarily look it. And that’s enough to get a raised eyebrow.

ikr?

that’s why I bought a 335, looks like a jazz box, but as versatile as a tele.

The 175 or L5 is not actually always a good choice for a big band gig (depends on the band). But the tele gets you weird comments.

Jazz horn players can be super conservative…

[pamosmusic]

ikr?

that’s why I bought a 335, looks like a jazz box, but as versatile as a tele.

The 175 or L5 is not actually always a good choice for a big band gig (depends on the band). But the tele gets you weird comments.

Jazz horn players can be super conservative…

Mine is also a sadowsky tele with two humbuckers so come on horn players.

don’t you know anything???

[rpjazzguitar]

In a traditional jazz setting, the lower strings could make mud with the bassist.

OTOH, if the bassist solos in an upper octave, you could play bass behind him and that would sound good. Tal Farlow did it with electronics.

If there's a piano, I don't know what you do with the extra strings in playing jazz standards, but probably a creative enough player could figure out something.

If there's no piano, you'd have enormous flexibility harmonically, if you could figure out what to play.

And, you'd have to get to genius level on string damping, or forget about open strings and use a Van Eps style device. Google Van Eps string damper.

If it's solo guitar, it would be limited only by your imagination and technique. I'd be curious to hear it.

[jazznylon]

You know.. maybe I should be content with my 6 string archtop. There's already a lot to learn with just 6 strings. Looks like I made up my mind! The 10 string is a no go thanks everyone for your thoughts

[pcjazz]

You know.. maybe I should be content with my 6 string archtop. There's already a lot to learn with just 6 strings. Looks like I made up my mind! The 10 string is a no go thanks everyone for your thoughts

Ralph Patt basically invented major 3rds tuning and played it on 8-string guitars, but he kept one 6-string archtop precisely for his band work, including with Benny Goodman.

[Christian Miller]

Mine is also a sadowsky tele with two humbuckers so come on horn players.

don’t you know anything???

no sir, they do not

Actually unfair. They know three things
1) mouthpiece chat
2) sight reading
3) cheesy 80s pentatonic licks