Incoming ... The Vox Clubman 60 (VCM60) Combo Amp For Hollow Body Guitars

[Jim Soloway]

This was announced by Vox about a year ago and then never made it into any stores. I thought it sounded great in the promo video and it's tiny. It's finally made it into a few stores in Canada (I believe it still hasn't shipped in the US) and I pulled the trigger on one yesterday. It's shipping today and has to travel about 3000 miles, so it probably won't be here for about a week or so but I'm really excited. I've wanted to try one since the announcement was first made. I'll report back with more info when it arrives.

Dimensions: 354 (W) × 208 (D) × 313 (H) mm/13.94 × 8.19 × 12.32?
Weight: 4.6 kg/10.14 lb

[pingu]

seems to be going for the
DV little jazz market

i look forward to your
impressions Jim ….

[AllanAllen]

Looking forward to your review on this. I’d be interested in replacing my Blues Jr with something louder, lighter and smaller.

[EllenGtrGrl]

Hmmmm, VERY intriguing. I'm on the lookout for an amp to replace or complement my current Yamaha THR5 (I downsized amp-wise in recent years due to not gigging [except for acoustic guitar at church - which I have an acoustic guitar amp for]). As for Vox's claim about it being tube powered, considering its light weight, it's probably a hybrid amp (tube pre-amp, and solid state power/final amp) - the transformers needed to provide voltage for power tubes are kind of heavy. It may even use Korg's (Vox's parent company) Nutube technology (a sort of new-style spin/development of tiny vacuum tubes, that has reduced power requirements, compared to traditional vacuum tubes). I don't think that Nutube is capable of providing at the present time, the higher power levels the power amp section of a guitar amp puts out.

[pingu]

1317058[/URL]]Hmmmm, VERY intriguing. I'm on the lookout for an amp to replace or complement my current Yamaha THR5 (I downsized amp-wise in recent years due to not gigging [except for acoustic guitar at church - which I have an acoustic guitar amp for]). As for Vox's claim about it being tube powered, considering its light weight, it's probably a hybrid amp (tube pre-amp, and solid state power/final amp) - the transformers needed to provide voltage for power tubes are kind of heavy. It may even use Korg's (Vox's parent company) Nutube technology (a sort of new-style spin/development of tiny vacuum tubes, that has reduced power requirements, compared to traditional vacuum tubes). I don't think that Nutube is capable of providing at the present time, the higher power levels the power amp section of a guitar amp puts out.

yes it has a ‘nu-tube’ in its pre amp
apparently and a 50watt (60watt peak) power stage
chorus and reverb
8” speaker
4.6kg
fairly cheap

[mr. beaumont]

Very nice sound in the video.

[callouscallus]

I wonder how different this would sound than similar wattage fender? I guessing the real difference would be the in eq voice. I'm guessing this amp being more mid focused. Makes me curious. Want to find something other than my AER for jazz/swing gigs. The AER works but the doesn't really excite me much

[Jim Soloway]

yes it has a ‘nu-tube’ in its pre amp
apparently and a 50watt (60watt peak) power stage
chorus and reverb
8” speaker
4.6kg
fairly cheap

And it should be noted that it's a coaxial speaker with a tweeter, so in many ways it's like a small PA cab that has a guitar voiced preamp in front of it. That's why they push the 3-D nature of it's sound. We'll see if it's really true when it gets here.

[Oscar67]

Glad to see a new product specifically with hollowbodies in mind! Look forward to your findings.

[mr. beaumont]

I wonder how different this would sound than similar wattage fender? I guessing the real difference would be the in eq voice. I'm guessing this amp being more mid focused. Makes me curious. Want to find something other than my AER for jazz/swing gigs. The AER works but the doesn't really excite me much

So unrelated but related, when using small modeling amps and looking for a jazz tone, one of my "secrets" was always to look for a Vox model...they tend to have just the right kind of midrange boost.

Now there's not too much in common between say, a Roland Microcube and this amp...except that the tone I'd go for with the Vox model on the Roland is very similar to what I'm hearing here...with the bigger speaker on the Clubman I'm almost certain it's going to deliver. I look forward to Jim's findings...

[Jim Soloway]

So unrelated but related, when using small modeling amps and looking for a jazz tone, one of my "secrets" was always to look for a Vox model...they tend to have just the right kind of midrange boost.

Now there's not too much in common between say, a Roland Microcube and this amp...except that the tone I'd go for with the Vox model on the Roland is very similar to what I'm hearing here...with the bigger speaker on the Clubman I'm almost certain it's going to deliver. I look forward to Jim's findings...

My big question is can it replace my Princeton Tone Master. I'm suddenly back playing out for the first time in years and I'm learning the hard way that the Tone Master of the Princeton doesn't get very loud (or at least not with a light touch and a low output pickup). It's projected to take 8 days to get here so I won't have any updates until then.

[One_Note]

Sounds nice. I wonder what they did differently specifically for hollow-body guitars? I mean it's unique obviously with the nu-tube thing, but I wonder how hollow-body guitars drove the specifics of the amp design.

[EastwoodMike]

As for Vox's claim about it being tube powered, considering its light weight, it's probably a hybrid amp (tube pre-amp, and solid state power/final amp) … It may even use Korg's (Vox's parent company) Nutube technology (a sort of new-style spin/development of tiny vacuum tubes, that has reduced power requirements, compared to traditional vacuum tubes). I don't think that Nutube is capable of providing at the present time, the higher power levels the power amp section of a guitar amp puts out.

My guess is that it is. Combo version of this concept….



<inserted picture of a Vox MV50 clean that won’t show up ?? >

cheer
Emike

[pingu]

1317312[/URL]]My guess is that it is. Combo version of this concept….

yes , specs here
Vox Clubman 60 - Vox Amps

[pingu]

there’s also a version with
a mic channel ….
Vox Ukulele 50

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

yes it has a ‘nu-tube’ in its pre amp apparently and a 50watt (60watt peak) power stage

The 50W RMS / 60W peak rating strongly suggests that it's a class D power supply. A class A or A/B amp with a traditional power supply usually has a peak rating that's about twice the RMS rating. The main reason class D amps are so efficient is that 90+ % of the power supply's output goes into the amplification of the input signal and as little as 5% or less is lost to heat. Because of this efficiency, they don't need / have big transformers or PS capacitors to store energy and discharge it when transient peaks call for it. So they can put out a lot of continuous power in watts with a small power supply, but they have little reserve and can't squeeze out much more even for brief peaks. This means that they have little or no headroom if run anywhere close to their maximum output. Distortion will still be low, but the output is severely compressed because there's just no more juice even for the briefest transients.

Vox claims that this amp makes 50W RMS into 8 ohms, which means a continuous sustainable 50 Watts that would be very impressive for the size and weight. But old fashioned class A or A/B tube amps with relatively larger power supplies and big PS caps can pump out up to twice their RMS rating for milliseconds at a time without overheating or otherwise failing. This is part of what we call headroom, with the other important component being the distortion at rated output. If those peaks are still realtively clean, we have headroom. If the output level in watts is "conservative", i.e. rated at very low distortion, those peaks will still be within a reasonable distortion envelope and won't sound terrible. But if the rated output is at borderline high distortion levels e.g. at or above ~1% (which many manufacturers do so they can sell their amps with higher rated output than more conservative competitors), those peaks are really crunchy and there's not much clean headroom to be had.

So I expect that this new Vox will sound fine but will not have the punch and headroom of a traditional (class A or A/B) amplifier if used close to its maximum output. The louder it is played, the more compressed the output will be. If you want the dynamics and headroom of a class A or A/B tube amp, you'll have to use it like a 20W RMS amp - I bet it won't do the job where you need even a Vibrolux, let alone a Twin. The louder you play, the flatter and more compressed it will sound, which makes it better for archtops than for solids because archtop hollow bodies are not often played at higher volumes for obvious reasons. It's an interesting marketing ploy, but I don't see anything other than what's probably an extended high frequency range as being a possible dedicated advantage for archtops over solid bodies.

The Nutube is in the front end, just as there's a 6025 (?) in the front end of my D V Mark EG250. Sound quality is great - warm and jazzy. I like it a lot and hope the little Vox is as good.

[AllanAllen]

I wonder if we could use something like the Trace Elliot ELF bass amp for guitar. 120 watts class D with a 200 peak, 1.6lbs at $350.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

I wonder if we could use something like the Trace Elliot ELF bass amp for guitar. 120 watts class D with a 200 peak, 1.6lbs at $350.

I bought one of the first ones and used it for a few years. They sound great for guitar and seem to be very well built. At higher volume, they compress noticeably, similar to what we got from tube amps with tube rectifiers. But those amps had flabby bass and the Elf stays nice and tight. It was great with my 7 string archtops through both my RevSound 8" bass cab and my 10" RE. I only sold it because I already had a few larger combos plus a Vox NIghtTrain tube head, and I subsequently acquired a Little Jazz, a SBUS, a Blu 6, and a DV Mark EG250 plus three Toobs. I didn't need all that stuff, so I sold all of my larger combos, the Elf, the LJ, the Vox, and a pair of good 1x12 cabs with EVMs in them.

I recommend the Elf highly. I found nothing to dislike, despite some complaints on the internet that the fan makes too much noise. My hearing is still quite good, and I could barely hear it in a quiet room. It's not audible while playing even at very low levels at home.

[RomanS]

I wonder if we could use something like the Trace Elliot ELF bass amp for guitar. 120 watts class D with a 200 peak, 1.6lbs at $350.

I used a TE ELF (going into a 1x12" cab loaded with a Celestion NEO 250 Copprback) with a rockabilly/country band for a while - lots of volume, great clean tone.

[Gitterbug]

There's three affordable 200W bass amps that are great for jazz guitar: The Elf is the cutest, TC Electronics BAM200 the roundest and Warwick Gnome the loudest. Why oh why doesn't any of the makers add a reverb chip? Any of these could be the Holy Grail for us.

[Jim Soloway]

The 50W RMS / 60W peak rating strongly suggests that it's a class D power supply. A class A or A/B amp with a traditional power supply usually has a peak rating that's about twice the RMS rating. The main reason class D amps are so efficient is that 90+ % of the power supply's output goes into the amplification of the input signal and as little as 5% or less is lost to heat. Because of this efficiency, they don't need / have big transformers or PS capacitors to store energy and discharge it when transient peaks call for it. So they can put out a lot of continuous power in watts with a small power supply, but they have little reserve and can't squeeze out much more even for brief peaks. This means that they have little or no headroom if run anywhere close to their maximum output. Distortion will still be low, but the output is severely compressed because there's just no more juice even for the briefest transients.

Vox claims that this amp makes 50W RMS into 8 ohms, which means a continuous sustainable 50 Watts that would be very impressive for the size and weight. But old fashioned class A or A/B tube amps with relatively larger power supplies and big PS caps can pump out up to twice their RMS rating for milliseconds at a time without overheating or otherwise failing. This is part of what we call headroom, with the other important component being the distortion at rated output. If those peaks are still realtively clean, we have headroom. If the output level in watts is "conservative", i.e. rated at very low distortion, those peaks will still be within a reasonable distortion envelope and won't sound terrible. But if the rated output is at borderline high distortion levels e.g. at or above ~1% (which many manufacturers do so they can sell their amps with higher rated output than more conservative competitors), those peaks are really crunchy and there's not much clean headroom to be had.

So I expect that this new Vox will sound fine but will not have the punch and headroom of a traditional (class A or A/B) amplifier if used close to its maximum output. The louder it is played, the more compressed the output will be. If you want the dynamics and headroom of a class A or A/B tube amp, you'll have to use it like a 20W RMS amp - I bet it won't do the job where you need even a Vibrolux, let alone a Twin. The louder you play, the flatter and more compressed it will sound, which makes it better for archtops than for solids because archtop hollow bodies are not often played at higher volumes for obvious reasons. It's an interesting marketing ploy, but I don't see anything other than what's probably an extended high frequency range as being a possible dedicated advantage for archtops over solid bodies.

The Nutube is in the front end, just as there's a 6025 (?) in the front end of my D V Mark EG250. Sound quality is great - warm and jazzy. I like it a lot and hope the little Vox is as good.

In fairness to Vox, it sells for $400 and these are the dimensions and weight:
Dimensions: 354 (W) × 208 (D) × 313 (H) mm/13.94 × 8.19 × 12.32"
Weight: 4.6 kg/10.14 lb

I wouldn't expect it to replace a Vibrolux or a Twin. For me the question is can it replace a Princeton or a Little Jazz? It's smaller, lighter and cheaper than both (at least in Canada) and if it can do that with a really nice tone, I'll be thrilled. And who knows, if it works then maybe they can do one with more power and a 10" coaxial speaker in a similar type of cabinet that will keep up with a Twin but weigh 20 lbs and sell for $800.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

In fairness to Vox, it sells for $400 and these are the dimensions and weight:
Dimensions: 354 (W) × 208 (D) × 313 (H) mm/13.94 × 8.19 × 12.32"
Weight: 4.6 kg/10.14 lb

I wouldn't expect it to replace a Vibrolux or a Twin. For me the question is can it replace a Princeton or a Little Jazz? It's smaller, lighter and cheaper than both (at least in Canada) and if it can do that with a really nice tone, I'll be thrilled. And who knows, if it works then maybe they can do one with more power and a 10" coaxial speaker in a similar type of cabinet that will keep up with a Twin but weigh 20 lbs and sell for $800.

My bet is that it’s better than the LJ and the Princeton for jazz gigs, assuming the speaker and enclosure design are fine. If played at conservative volume, it should have plenty of clean headroom, while the Princeton is already breaking up by the time it’s putting out a few watts.

My reference to Vibrolux and Twin was aimed at those who’d take that 50 Watt rating at face value and try to use the Vox where they’d need at least a Vibrolux. I strongly doubt that the little Vox would keep up with any 40 W RMS tube amp. As the early Twins were 40 and 60 Watts, they’re also in that ballpark. I think Fender makes a ‘57 Tweed Twin “reissue” now that’s 40 Watts into a pair of 8 Ohm speakers in parallel.

[AllanAllen]

Or you could link it to something like this.

Tone Master(R) FR-10 | Audio

[EastwoodMike]

There's three affordable 200W bass amps that are great for jazz guitar: The Elf is the cutest, TC Electronics BAM200 the roundest and Warwick Gnome the loudest. Why oh why doesn't any of the makers add a reverb chip? Any of these could be the Holy Grail for us.

any bass amps come with reverb?

[Gitterbug]

any bass amps come with reverb?

These have been labeled as bass amps, but they're actually excellent allround amps - intelligent power amps if you will - with eq shelves in the right zones from our perspective. Very close to Seymour Duncan, Milkman, Raezer's Edge etc. which rely on the IcePower module and cost a multiple. Adding a reverb chip would make them perfect jazz guitar amps. With so much dancing on a plethora of stomp boxes going on, who needs more than that? I recently ordered a rather pricey guitar amp head - won't name it here - which is so over-featured and distortion-geared that I find it useless.