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How the h*** do they get away with this? What happens when somone actually orders something?
https://www.dhgate.com/product/hot-s...iABEgLFpfD_BwE
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03-11-2024 11:59 PM
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It's China, they do not respect copyrights or patents or human life for that matter. They are communist so they do not innovate or create, they steal ideas from people who do innovate or create.
Originally Posted by Woody Sound
For example:
I had an entire EPK complete with all the artwork that you can buy from China through ebay for cheaper than my per unit cost was. I could spend time playing whack-a-mole with ebay but they would just open another account. Be very careful what company you have printing your CD's. They sell all your data to a 3rd party and this is the result. All because one spendthrift I was working with at the time went with a less reputable company to do the printing.
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So anyways. You might receive a pretty nice guitar for the money. You might receive a nice looking but unplayable wall hanger. Roll the dice. I was looking at LP knockoffs. If you can find a reputable ebayer selling them your chances of getting something that works is pretty good, read their feedback first, but generally it's a crap shoot, not going to be worth it. If it's junk and you have to return it you will be paying shipping to China to get your "refund". Too good to be true=not any good.
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Is the site Chinese? I don’t think they’ll send you anything at all. Probably just see how much money they can rip off from a payment processor before getting caught. These sites pop up all the time.
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DHGate and AliBaba are legitimate sites, they just sell knockoff junk by the container ship full. Lots of bad quality reports on the guitars. Like I said, if you want one, find an ebayer selling them and check their feedback. There are some honorable people selling them that will make sure you get taken care of. For every one of those sellers there are two dozen others with trash feedback because most of the guitars are questionable quality. Buyer beware in any case.
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DHGate has been in biz for quite a while. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
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But they are picturing actual Gibsons from reputable dealers’ sites.
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Oh sorry yeah now I see what's going on.
Here's how the scam works. It's the same scam as we see on reverb.
Someone claims to have a guitar they don't have, usually by stealing someone else's photos. They sell it on an online marketplace. Eventually the account gets banned, but it turns out these fraudsters can still walk away with the money. The reason they keep the money is because technically DHGate, Alibaba, Amazon, Reverb, Etsy, &c. is the "Merchant of record" on the transaction. What this means is that when a consumer inevitably charges back the payment, the e-commerce site is the one that takes the hit. The scammer walks away with their winnings.
I wouldn't blame china for this. It happens in the US too, although this particular instance seems more egregious than the US ones. I'd buy 1000 1956 L7s at $315/unit if I could.
I recognize the photo. The actual dealer wants $8.7k for it. I think both the real and fake sellers are dreaming.
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As for the knock off stuff, which isn't technically a scam, just a form of dumping. I agree. This exists because the market is insufficiently regulated against this kind of activity in some parts of the world. When you're trying to rapidly boost your GDP I can see why you might look the other way.
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I am familiar with the scams Juan mentioned but I guess I was just thinking about the cheap knock offs that run the gamut from a cheap but decent knockoff guitar to an absolute piece of crap that is useful as a wall hanger in your guitar room Originally Posted by Woody Sound
Like this:
Custom Ace Frehley LP Electric Guitar Blue Sparkle Ebony Fretboard 6 String | eBay
Seller has 93 percent feedback rating, abysmal. Some of the sellers do seem to pre sort the guitars before selling them, they will have the higher feedback. A lot of those listings are zero feedback burner accounts but if you dig around there are one or two ebayers with a pretty good rep. You're not getting an exacting Ace Frehley Gibson Les Paul. The sparkle finish is rough, the fret work can be bad, etc. But there are some reviewers on youtube who admit being pleasantly surprised by what they received for the money and actually got a usable instrument. Roll the dice.
I have heard it speculated that some of this stuff is coming from factories that make brand name guitars, and these are done after hours, or are done by trainees, or are 2nd run stuff that didn't make the cut. It's not really clear but you can find some Les Pauls that look awful similar to an Epiphone only with the open scroll headstock. So who knows. I think they are best avoided but they might be great for someone looking for a cheap guitar to learn how to modify, practice fret work, etc.
Here's a guy selling an obvious knockoff, but with a feedback score of 100 percent after 200+ sales. He has a few neutral reviews stating "expect some fret work etc on a guitar of this price range". I mean, you can't expect perfection. I wouldn't do it, but I don't have 300 buck to blow on maybes. If you need something of guaranteed quality I would stick to Epiphone and some of the other makers with an actual name.
Custom Cherry Sunburst ACE Frehley Electric Guitar Flame Maple Top Body Binding | eBay
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If you were to buy say a hockey jersey from DHgate, what you would get is basically the same jersey made in the same factory as you'd buy from NHL.com but for $150 dollars less. If you buy something handcrafted like a guitar then yeah, you are going to get ripped off and be angry about it.
Don't buy anything more expensive than this from DHgate, and don't buy electronics either: https://www.dhgate.com/wholesale/hoc...sting_bread-31
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To react to something claimed at the start ... guess among which "extremists" you find the least innovation ... right or left ...
I don't know. If it's just a look-alike that doesn't claim to be the original (like certain of my watches) there isn't much wrong with it IMHO and it doesn't even have to be a form of dumping. Although some people will claim that anything from a cheaper labour market sold for its actual price is a form of dumping. Originally Posted by omphalopsychos
Counterfeiting is a completely different proposition, one the US is no stranger to itself (if there's still US-made camenbert, champagne and other PDO products).
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Does the world really need more Les Paul's, especially cheap ones?
At a now-closed guitar boutique I used to visit, probably a quarter of the inventory was (actual, Gibson) Les Paul's.
Whatever you like, seems to me the easy fix is, don't buy cheap guitars online. I bought a Tele knock-off at a local shop in upstate NY, got a deal since it had a chip in the headstock- but, I could try it first and it played just fine.
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I've bought 2 guitars direct from China. A Fender Strat and a Highland Bop Cat. I did it out of curiosity back when I had some unexplained cash lying around the house. The "Fender" was pretty bad. Must have been legitimate and authentic though because it had 2 different serial numbers, one USA and one Mexican. (So much better than the puny American counterparts with their single serial number.) It was also a Fender Strat Bullet series so they got confused as to whether they were knocking off a Squier or a Fender.
The Bop Cat was a different story. I think it was a legitimate Highland Bop Cat that was left over at the factory when the Highland company in Canada (or whoever owned the Highland brand) folded. It was a very good value $300 guitar with only one minor flaw - a buzzing fret which only affected 1 string. Possibly they would have sorted this out if the shipment was going to Highland but couldn't be bothered given Highland's predicament.
What is a Highland Bop Cat?
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More or less? Originally Posted by JGinNJ
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For those that clearly don't know the difference:
- Scams are scams. They are common on Reverb and other sites. The listing the OP posted is a scam. There is no 'they' getting away with anything. Not as if there was some global policing mechanisms in place and 'they' are just letting this one slide. Criminals slip between the cracks of huge processes and systems and are facilitated by the naive and clueless. This will eventually change as AI tools get ubiquitous and cheap enough to police sites for scams. At which point we'll see more sophisticated scams crop up. Because there will still be plenty of scammers and stupid sheep to fleece.
- Copies are common. China is among the countries that don't do much to enforce intellectual property.
- Legit Chinese builders make some very good guitars. Especially if you know where to look and what to ask for.
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