No more 10" Neo Speakers?

[aquin43]

Has anyone else noticed that all the manufacturers seem to be discontinuing their 10 inch neo guitar speakers and the price for the remainder of the stock has more than doubled? The only 10 inch neos in regular supply seem to be bass speakers where the extra flux density makes up for the heavier cones.

[omphalopsychos]

Get the Jensen blackbird 40. I don’t see a reason to use a 10” neo speaker when it weighs the same as a small ceramic or alnico magnet (plus or minus half a pound). The Jensen blackbird is a great sounding lightweight speaker that can accommodate relatively high wattage. Very full sounding across the range.

[aquin43]

Its more the sensitivity. The Blackbird is 3dB less sensitive than the NEO10-100 that I used to use. That is a factor of 1/2 on the effective amp power. AlNiCo is too expensive (unavailably so) at the flux densities required and ceramic very heavy.

[omphalopsychos]

Yeah I feel you wrt the sensitivity but 40w power handling is a lot. With modern solid state amps and a single 96 db 1m/1w 10" driver you can handle a lot of clean volume with minimal weight.

[Gitterbug]

The Jensen N10/100TR (Tornado) is as good as they get. I have no indication about it being discontinued. Uraltone in Helsinki has 16 in stock, I have 5, Tube Amp Doctor has them, and so does Thomann and many others... As for the choice between this and the 40W Blackbird AlNiCo, it's a close call. The Blackbird is a tad less sensitive on paper, but equally loud to the ear. I prefer the Tornado for straight-ahead jazz, and most of my popular TOOB 10S cabs have been loaded with it.

That the Blackbird AlNico is now cheaper that Tornado in many places may tell us something pertaining to OP's observation. Neodymium is in high demand due to its use in wind power aggregates. 95% of it comes from China. The commodity price went fourfold from 2020 to early 2022, but has since almost returned to pre-Covid levels. Given the bottlenecks and lead times along the supply chain, speaker manufacturers may still be suffering from the price peak. It's conceivable that remaining high-price inventories sell out faster with 12" speakers, a larger and more expensive product category.

This is all pure reasoning without inside info on my part.

Edit: Scanning through manufacturers' pages, it's striking how few 10" speakers are being offered overall. Celestion lists a few ferrite models and just one AlNiCo version, the Gold.

[Gitterbug]

An old thread revived for a reason. Jensen discontinues the 10", 100W Tornado. A pity, really, because that speaker is simply great. It looks like 8", even 6.5" are eroding the 10" caliber's popularity, while 12" reigns supreme.

[entresz]

I have two 10" Tornados in my Quilter Aviator Twin Ten. What a shame they are discontinued, they're a great sounding speaker. The Quilter was a good sounding amp with the stock speakers, but the Jensens really took it up a notch and smoothed the slightly strident mid range the amp had while cutting a bit of weight.

[jads57]

I wonder if the material to make neodymium speakers has become too expensive to make it worth while? My only complaint about all of various neodymium speakers is that they seem a bit light in bass response compared to to their heavier ceramic counterparts.

[213Cobra]

I wonder if the material to make neodymium speakers has become too expensive to make it worth while? My only complaint about all of various neodymium speakers is that they seem a bit light in bass response compared to to their heavier ceramic counterparts.

Neodymium magnet prices went through the roof during pandemic supply chain dysfunctions, and most of the material comes from China. Prices settled somewhat since supply chains eased but prices haven't returned all the way to earth. In hifi, many neodymium tweeters are 50% more expensive or worse than in early 2020, along with rejection rates on magnets being considerably elevated, which also raises effective costs while lowering QC (and raising warranty claims) on finished products.

Phil

[Gitterbug]

The silver lining is that Jensen's AlNiCo Blackbirds aren't more expensive than Tornados now. 40W is quite sufficient for loud jazz, and many iconic Celestions handle only 25W-30W.

EDIT: I looked at Neodymium prices. They have swung wildly not only during and due to the pandemic, but within 2024. Anyway, the cost of a kilo was $65-70 kg pre-2020. Went to $110 on 1.1.2021, to $223 a year later, $209 on 1.2.2023, $113 the following year and $96 at the start of this year. So the five-year increase is around 47%. I'm buying magnets for my speaker legs from Supermagnete in Germany, and they claim to have adjusted their prices to reflect the decline in Neo prices.

[Hammertone]

Bah, humbug! I use these, with the "Wide H" dome. Wonderful sound, plenty of power-handling, efficient, and heavy:

[Gitterbug]

Yes, heavy. The headline is about Neo speakers.

[ValerieK]

I feel like I have missed the boat. I was interested in both the 10" Tornado and the 12" 4 Ohm N12D from Jensen for different applications but have not gotten into a position to buy/store anything yet. Need infinite storage space and cash to hoard stuff...

Looks like Eminence S2010 is still available in the 10" realm. It's technically a bass speaker but might be nice for guitar too - another one that's on my list to try if it still exists by the time I get around to it.

[nevershouldhavesoldit]

It's technically a bass speaker but might be nice for guitar too - another one that's on my list to try if it still exists by the time I get around to it.

Don't worry about calling them "bass speakers". The classic speakers in the best guitar amps of the 20th century have mid and treble responses pretty much the equal of those for today's "bass speakers". Bass speakers have lower free air resonance than "guitar speakers", so they put out a more solid bottom than "guitar speakers" in well designed cabinets matched to the speaker's Thiele-Small parameters (Q, resonance, mechanical damping etc).

There are still a few neo 10s in current catalogs. Celestion still shows the BN10-200X (8 Ohms) and the BN10-300X (4 Ohms), both of which are neos sold as bass speakers. But so is the BN12-300S in my Block Dock 12HD, and I think its tone is nicely bright and articulate. It lets my archtops sound like themselves. And it's at least as loud as a Twin or a 100W Boogie driven by the OD202 head. So I'd expect the 10" versions to be equally fine.

The Celestion TF1018 in my BlockDock 10 has apparently been discontinued. I tried replacing it with my 10" Tornado Jet Neo, which sounds a little better to me with an archtop than the stock TF1018. It's a bit richer, smoother, and better balanced from top to bottom. But the paper circle in the circumference of the frame is a bit thicker than it is on the TF, and the speaker is front mounted. So the grille protrudes a little at the bottom with the Jet in it. I put the original Celestion back.

Here's a recent video of my Quilter OD202 and BlockDock 12HD with the BN12-300S in it. The sound quality is not the best, especially at the low end. But I think it's clear that there's enough upper mid and treble even in the 300W 12" driver to do justice to an archtop. This one is heavy, laminated, and poly coated - but I think it sounds pretty nice, even in this marginal video made by someone on the venue staff.

[Cavalier]

Eminence Deltalite II 2510, great sound., neutral.