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Is anyone noticing how pervasive seller fraud has become on Reverb? I have L-5 in my feed, among others, and previously sold items reappear, again and again--almost always outside U.S. I was flagging them but gave up on it. Ridiculously low prices, and some have actually "sold." Most sellers have no sales record, and I wonder how they expect to receive payment at all, as new seller payout takes more time, compared to an established seller.
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06-05-2024 09:58 PM
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Yep, scams are at an all time high. I recently came across a couple 'steals' that had literally been listed 2 mins prior.
By the time I finished reading the ads they were sold. I recognized the guitars so wasn't tempted anyway, besides, my buying days are over for the most part. I just hope no one got duped.
Be careful out there.....
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Sometimes, the advertisements are fake but no fraud is intended. Rather, the sale is used for money laundering.
I was tempted by one guitar, which was said to be in a suburb of Auckland. However, the mountain in the background of the photograph made me suspicious, as did the truck with an Alaskan number plate. I also saw the same photograph in an advertisement that claimed the guitar was on the island of St Helena, in the South Atlantic.
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I saw a Wes l5 2 days ago show for $5650. I knew was not quite right. Sent seller a message to buy but wanted to pickup guitar in person. I got no response and could not find listing again after a few hours.
I would never buy a guitar through reverb period.
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I think I saw that listing yesterday. I knew right away that was a scam. Not like I have even $5k to spare but...
Originally Posted by deacon Mark
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Sometimes a “steal” is just a steal.
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Most people are honest but some are not. In any kind of transactions in life, one will eventually have dealings with the latter.
As President Reagan once said "Trust but verify". That is good advice for guitar transactions and pretty much everything else.
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What led you to that conclusion? Originally Posted by Litterick
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True. Reagan was trusted not to sell arms to the Contra’s. Originally Posted by Stringswinger
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Someone who knows about these things told me. Originally Posted by jazzshrink
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Originally Posted by 2bornot2bop
True. Reagan was trusted not to sell arms to the Contra’s.
Well - it was a good saying at least!
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This appears to be a fake: 1968 was the first year that Fender made the Thinline Telecaster, however the serial number on this guitar indicates it was manufactured in 1969. What's more, there is no record or photographs of Mike Bloomfield ever playing a Thinline Tele.
Mike-Bloomfield's-1968-Fender-Telecaster - $127,500
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Trust but verify is an old Russian saying. Reagan said it with a smile to Gorbachev, and Gorbachev laughed. Originally Posted by AKA
Well - it was a good saying at least!
[COLOR=var(--YLNNHc)][COLOR=var(--YLNNHc)]What does the Russian proverb trust but verify mean?[/COLOR]
[/COLOR]
[COLOR=var(--bbQxAb)]Translated from an old Russian phrase used by Vladimir Lenin and Joseph Stalin, “Doveryai, No Proveryai” is the idea that a responsible person verifies everything before committing themselves to business, even if it's with a trusted individual.
[/COLOR]
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Mike Bloomfield: An American Guitarist Originally Posted by Mick-7
"...The instrument was apparently traded by MB to the Guitar Center in 1978 for an Epiphone Emperor (if I understand seller William Roberson's notes correctly). Roberson, who worked at the Center, bought it soon afterward, and has had it ever since. Filmmaker Robb Lawrence, who filmed Bloomfield's segment in "The Wizard from Waukesha," confirms that the guitar was indeed Michael's, because MB mentioned to him that he had traded a Thinline to the Guitar Center."
It also comes with documents of authenticity, as shown in the Reverb listing. I'm not saying it's worth the asking price, but a one-year difference in the build date doesn't scream "fake" to me.
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"Filmmaker Robb Lawrence, who filmed Bloomfield's segment in "The Wizard from Waukesha," confirms that the guitar was indeed Michael's, because MB mentioned to him that he had traded a Thinline to the Guitar Center."
Makes for a nice story but that's hardly provenance.
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Read the notarized documents in the Reverb listing, then comment. Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
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Sounds like something orange Jesus would say. Originally Posted by Litterick
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Originally Posted by jazzshrink
"The instrument was apparently traded by MB to the Guitar Center in 1978 for an Epiphone Emperor"
I wouldn't buy "apparently," nor would I go by the word of the seller alone or a third party anecdotal statement, would you?
Show me an authentic picture of Michael playing the guitar or credible witnesses who will confirm they saw it in his possession, the documents provided do not meet that requirement - and getting the year wrong does not exactly inspire confidence either.
As I just suggested, they are about as convincing as a $3 bill. Originally Posted by jazzshrink
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Not that it matters to you, but the word "apparently" was used by the person who posted the article, not by anyone involved in the sale in 1978. Do I know for certain that this is not legit? No, but the seller is offering more documentation than one usually sees (cancelled checks, notarized COA, witness statements, etc.). Also, if you're perpetuating a fraud, you wouldn't set the asking price so high that no one would buy it and keep the listing open for two years. That is, unless the seller is involved in a lavish money laundering scheme. Originally Posted by Mick-7
It's easy to cast aspersions, especially if there's little chance you'll ever have to confront the person directly or be asked for evidence to back up your accusations. Like you, I would scrutinize any claims made by a seller. Unlike you, I apply the same standards to someone who disputes those claims.
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The "cancelled check" was from someone to a Guitar Center store. The "witness statement," was purely anecdotal, "Michael said he traded a guitar to Guitar Center." Notorized third party statements prove nothing. Originally Posted by jazzshrink
Not that it matters to you, but the word "apparently" was used by the person who posted the article, not by anyone involved in the sale in 1978. Do I know for certain that this is not legit? No, but the seller is offering more documentation than one usually sees (cancelled checks, notarized COA, witness statements, etc.). Also, if you're perpetuating a fraud, you wouldn't set the asking price so high that no one would buy it and keep the listing open for two years. That is, unless the seller is involved in a lavish money laundering scheme.
It's easy to cast aspersions, especially if there's little chance you'll ever have to confront the person directly or be asked for evidence to back up your accusations. Like you, I would scrutinize any claims made by a seller. Unlike you, I apply the same standards to someone who disputes those claims.
The seller may actually believe that the guitar once belonged to Michael Bloomfield, but I'd need more concrete evidence to share his belief. Records show that Bloomfield owned and was seen playing two Telecasters, but no one has ever seen him with this Thinline.
Here is one of Bloomfield's two Teles that has been truly authenticated:
Mike Bloomfield owned Fender Telecaster 1966, Custom | Carter Vintage Guitars
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Bloomfield is a tricky case because he withdrew from the spotlight in his last several years of life. He stopped playing big venues and recording on major labels, played mainly with relative unknowns, and didn't tour. So there's not a lot of information about what he was playing, and there are not a lot of pictures of him in performance. It's certainly plausible that thinline was his guitar, and the documents add to that plausibility IMO. I'd actually lean toward accepting it was MB's. But the price is absurd; it's just somebody's wishful thinking. Originally Posted by Mick-7
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In any case, it is not an instrument that MB was primarily associated with during his prime, even if it was his. Originally Posted by John A.
His original burst and telecaster, both of which he was known for using during recording and live playing at his peak, have a much stronger historical association as part of Bloomfield's signature sound. And so they would be more valuable. This is true of most "celebrity" guitars.
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Sounds like you have something going on in your head. You have nothing to say, no argument to make, only suspicion and distrust. You should see a psychiatrist about that. Originally Posted by jazzshrink
You don't have to be a dick. You could try to have a little respect for your fellows on this forum. I could not care less what you think of me, but new members see this kind of arsehattery and they leave.
You could also do some research to save yourself from ignominy.
Investopedia:
Money can be laundered through online auctions and sales or virtual gaming sites. Ill-gotten money is converted into the currency that is used on these sites, then transferred back into real, usable, and untraceable clean money.
The Guardian:
“Cyberlaundering is on an upward trajectory. It’s rising with the everyday use of the internet,” says Michael Perklin, a digital forensic investigator responsible for catching cyberlaunderers.
Payments for items on eBay are often made via PayPal, which was previously the de rigeur tool for cyberlaundering before the rise of cryptocurrencies such as ZCash and Monero that offer near-total anonymity, but remains popular with criminals.
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Actually, I see an experienced mental health professional every day (in the mirror). I have great respect for a few members here. Most others I generally respect until they prove unworthy of my trust and respect (but that can change with good deeds). Funny thing, you've been on my ignore list for months. You absolutely love to argue with other members and often do so in a disrespectful manner. Borrowing your own words, you can come off as a "dick" imo. That's your right, but frankly I think it does more harm to the community than anything I've said. But maybe you're right. I do tend to be fairly suspicious (occupational hazard), but I'm not the one who raises the specter of money laundering (on several occasions). Yes, it exists, but is it happening here? Tell me, how do you launder money without a sale? Granted, other people might be satisfied with "someone who knows told me so". I guess that's not me. I will try to be more respectful in the future, and I will continue to ignore those who might not deserve the effort. Originally Posted by Litterick
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Yup. Which is why the asking price is absurd. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
Yup. Originally Posted by bluejaybill
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