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So, I'm away in holiday and have borrowed a terrible plank guitar that has telegraph wire action, ridiculous (think Freddie G). But, I've come to realise there is an advantage for the right hand. When alt picking between strings, the fretted note on one string sees that string depressed quite a bit lower than the surrounding strings, so that when you strike another string, the pick has more available contact area with that new string. Now, I know this should not make sense because you obviously need to press down these other strings to fret successive notes, which should negate any such "clearance" between strings. Not sure if I'm striking just prior to pressing, but for some weird reason, negotiating string crossing while alt picking seems cleaner with high action.
Not to be confused with the cleaner sound that high action naturally provides. Of course, it takes quite a while (if ever) to adjust the left hand to the greater string height, and there is a loss of speed to be sure, but I can see (I think?) why some players like early Pat Martino may have preferred high action to help enable clean right hand technique. Still, I can't wait to get back to my own guitars with their moderate action, although it will be interesting to see how that will feel after a couple of weeks of this current left hand torture!
Any similar thoughts / experiences?
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12-27-2024 05:01 AM
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I tried it before on a classical but it just takes too much work for the fretting hand personally (especially on the first few frets). But for the right hand I can see the advantages, gives more room for drive against the strings hence more power and projection. Manuel Barrueco is a good example of a player using high action.
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I have had some bad guitars with really high action. Since I didn't have the money to get something else at that moment, I made the most of it and played them. And after a bit, got used to it. I found one benefit is when you do get a decent guitar, you will find it very easy to play. I was just a lot stronger with from picking and working the high action.
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My experience is similar to Brian’s: For many years, my only guitar was my Yamaha Eterna flattop, which I strung with.013-.056 strings. I never had it setup from the time I got it (40 years ago, almost to the day) until circa 2015. And it truly had Freddie Green type action until that setup. Didn’t matter to me: I played everything on it, because I learned by playing along with records and tapes (Yes, The Poll Winners, Coltrane, Wes, The Mahavishnu Orchestra, Steely Dan, Jean Luc Ponty and on and on).
Van Halen acolytes in my dorm would have me try their guitars (Frankenstrats with a Floyd Rose) and I would pull the strings off the instrument with a basic bend, because they were using .08s for the high E when I was used to whole step bending on heavy strings and high action.
When I got my first electric in 1992 (my Telecaster), it was an adjustment to deal with, so easy to overplay with the light strings and low action. I ultimately got used to it, but I did go up to an .011-.053 set (D’A Chromes).
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As an older player struggling with arthritis and tendonitis, I have to wonder which action is kinder to the future of your hands. My guess is that higher action would result in more wear on the joints.
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Yeah, it would take me many years, I think, to get to my normal speed with high action. Maybe it's something you need to start young with? But it certainly makes you re-evaluate your technique!
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Actually, done within reason, the opposite is true. You need to reinforce those finger muscles and the only way to do that is to give them something more to squeeze than their usual low buttery action.
Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
I have an archtop with slightly higher action , I use it to warm up, run scales and exercises usually in the first 2 hours of my practice session and then I switch to my main guitar, low action plays like butter. I'd say since doing this I've not experienced finger pain like before . FWIW I'm 75 with arthritic fingers and joints. I can't do a barre on the first fret of the higher action guitar though .
Of course , you could just squeeze a tennis ball
but that's not as much fun 
S
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Yea Prince....
Growing up with high-action guitars and an acoustic focus can definitely shape your technique in a unique way. The precision and strength required for high-action playing seems to naturally develop... or at least enhance a solid technical foundation.
I believe the muscle memory and technique I developed from my early days are likely still reflected in my playing today. I don't have near the chops I had last century. But have always believed that higher acoustic style of guitars helped my technique and chops as well as my... rhythmic skills.
Reg
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I agree with this. I've been playing for almost 70 years. I used the "normal" strings that were available when I started, and they were pretty heavy (although I have no idea what they were). After 2 years on a $10 United Elitone flat top with whatever came on it (and identical replacements when one broke), I got a Gibson LG-1 with OEM strings that were probably 13-56s. My leap to electrics 2 years later was with a used 345 that came to me strung with the same gauge flats, and I stuck with that size for years through a 175, an L-5 and a host of subsequent archtops, semis and solids. I loved Guild EA610 flats from the first time they arrived at my dealer's shop, and I mostly used the 13-56 medium set. I used EA610L (12-52, IIRC) for blues and rock gigs. When the Guilds disappeared from the market, I went to Chromes and later TI. Originally Posted by SOLR
Today, I have heavy Bensons (14-55) over a 75 7th string on my regular gigging archtop, JS113s on my two carved archtops, and JS112s or Chrome "light" 12-52s over a 65 or a 72 on my solids. I've always avoided positions that caused pain, and I've always tried to be efficient in finger placement and hand position. My hands have held up very well, with no degradation that I can detect. I think that's at least in part because I've never used light strings. I do use 10 and 13 E1 and B on the solid body I use most often for blues gigs (a '90s Epi LP 7 string) for smooth wide bends and a rich, controllable finger vibrato that just isn't quite as sweet on heavy strings. But most of my playing has always been on relatively heavy strings.
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Hard disagree on this one. The thing that prevents the tendinitis and carpal tunnel is learning not to fight the instrument. Some people manage not to fight the guitar too hard with high action, and others need lower action, but it’s the fight that causes the damage. Originally Posted by SOLR
I had carpal tunnel at 21 and have used 11s with a super low action ever since.
I used to work in the office for a high end luthier and would have one of the techs do my setup work. The first time he did it I kept sending him back to lower it, and after the third time he was like “I will lower it one more time but if the boss ever picks this thing up, you are forbidden from telling him that I did this.”
Been playing it that way for a decade now.
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My apologies! After reading all this again, I think I've foolishly lumped high action and heavy strings together as equally beneficial. I've always used as little relief as possible and low action, both of which favor heavy strings. But I do agree that very high action is probably damaging in conjunction with heavy strings. I keep the action pretty high on 2 of my solid bodies because I play standard tuning slide on blues gigs, and I don't have a problem playing standard lead on them. In fact, high action helps control bends and vibrato with heavier strings. But most of my gigs are jazz and most of my guitars have heavy strings with low action. Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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I like 13s and low action. I never really think about the string spacing or height on my right hand. That takes care of itself.
Strumming technique, I’ve been all over that this last two weeks, trying to get the Coker patters up to 180+ with some sweep picking too.
Having the strings at different bridge heights would really screw with this at high tempos, I would think.
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I use 10-46 (which are considered light) because the biggest high E that will fit through the enclosed roller nut is 10. With a set of 11s all the strings will fit except the high E - has to be a 10 (not even a 10.5 will fit)... and when I've used an 11 set with a 10 on top the sound level of the high E is slightly less in the balance and bugs me (may just be my imagination).
I do prefer a high action, some would consider it unplayable, but after many decades my hands are strong and I need to feel the strings even though I finger and pick lightly (Yes! Never fight the instrument.) I also like the clarity and tone of high action - any fret buzz, rod rattle, or other artifacts some people accept (even those that are local to the guitar but "aren't heard through the amp") would drive me to distraction. Has to be high and tight, clean and clear.
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Hmm, "action" is an ambiguous subject, because
i, string height is relative. For example; string height at 12th fret doesn't tell everything we need to know and should not be confused with "action". String height at 1st fret solely depends on nut height. String height at 17th fret depends on effective neck angle. String height across the board depends on neck relief.
ii, Effective neck angle depends on neck set angle and truss rod setting.
iii, "Action", refers to the individual player's perception, which cannot be measured. This topic is frequently confused with string gauge. Perceived tension, depends on physical axial string tension, as well string deflection resistance, which in turn depends on many other things, like friction etc, that cannot be measured.
"High action" has different practical meaning depending on who you are, your application and purpose. When playing Slide guitar strings must clear the frets when the slide is positioned on top of the strings. Not only is this a matter of string deflection resistance, but also the fretboard radius. The practical meaning of all this is that some slide players and their guitars get away with 2mm string height whereas others would need 5mm. (Some old guitars due for neck reset are not good for anything but slide).
Now, most importantly for the Jazz player:
The guitar must intonate for you to be able to play chords in tune and stay in tune. If the strings pitch sharp anywhere on the fretboard you may perceive action being too high. Intonation involves many other things than just sliding bridge saddles back and forth. Primarily the bridge radius must comply and you'll need low nut action, otherwise you'll get perceived high action regardless of the 12th fret measurement. If you don't play barre chords and complex intervals up the neck, maybe just single line leads, it really doesn't matter much if action is silly high. Silly low action on the other hand is a state where the strings cannot vibrate freely and there's fret buzz whenever you play your guitar with authority. If the fretboard isn't level you may not be able to set the strings low enough to be able to play in tune.
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Luthiers do have a standard way of measuring action. So it’s a matter of perception to a player, but there it does refer to a particular measurement that a repair tech or luthier can take and adjust
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Play for a few more years like that,and then stop cause you will have such bad tendonitis that you will have to sell your guitars..unless your basic job is lumberjack, of course
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One of those "other things" is the length of string between the nut and tuning post, and between the bridge and where the string's end is seated. That length outside the nut and bridge offers more stretchable string length, so deflection distance is greater to achieve the same increase in tension... feels more slinky. Originally Posted by JCat
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High action bad.
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+1 Originally Posted by vintagelove
I like my action low as possible without buzzing. Always have, Always will.
But what works for me, may not work for you.
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