Learning Fast Picking from Andreas Oberg

**AlsoRan** · 05-29-2016, 02:18 PM

Lately, a lot of you have espoused learning from the Masters instead of a book.

This video, recently posted by helios, really caught my attention. I gained so much info from it, including how he picks from the wrist, and how he seems to consistently incorporate his elbow whenever he is going "super-fast." I have found myself doing the same thing or I cannot attain my highest picking speeds - but only for short bursts.

Many, including monster pickers such as Paul Gilbert (Hard Rock shredder) have pointed out the dangers of picking from the elbow exculsively, and in an interview in my Guitar Player Magazine, he said he switched to using his wrist. I can see both have their uses and assume in short bursts, using the elbow is not so bad.

**NoReply** · 05-29-2016, 02:43 PM

He's another with Gypsy Jazz background.

**AlsoRan** · 05-29-2016, 04:48 PM

Man, I thoroughly enjoyed that video. I have not made it a point to listen to Gypsy Jazz but videos like this are inspiring.

It seems Gypsy Jazz is just made for having fun and playing with just 1 or 2 players. I like that about it. It does not need a whole lot of accompaniment.

Obviously two great players.

**Jehu** · 05-29-2016, 06:35 PM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

It seems Gypsy Jazz is just made for having fun and playing with just 1 or 2 players. I like that about it. It does not need a whole lot of accompaniment.

Or DOES it?!

**NoReply** · 05-29-2016, 06:39 PM

Originally Posted by AlsoRan

Man, I thoroughly enjoyed that video. I have not made it a point to listen to Gypsy Jazz but videos like this are inspiring.

It seems Gypsy Jazz is just made for having fun and playing with just 1 or 2 players. I like that about it. It does not need a whole lot of accompaniment.

Obviously two great players.

Gypsy Jazz varies from solo to large groups of mainly guitars. Frank Vignola is a great guitarist who plays a lot Gypsy Jazz and other styles. He's an excellent teacher over on TrueFire and some books. He travels a lot doing clinics and concerts you ought to check him out if he comes to your area. If you look you'll find a lot of good guitarists have some Gypsy Jazz in their background.

**AlsoRan** · 05-29-2016, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Jehu

Or DOES it?!

Holy Cow!!!

**Robertkoa** · 06-15-2016, 11:28 AM

Here's the same guy playing more from the wrist..more relaxed...faster but most importantly playing more -in time.

My Theory about" arm speed " is it's mostly a Myth and if you listen to guys who use it or think they are they usually are picking too hard for electric and the stiffness does not allow them to follow the contours of the strings OR the lines that they are playing = off time missed notes harsh tone.

Moving Furniture= use arm( and larger muscle groups )
Playing Guitar = use wrist

Moving Furniture AND playing guitar simultaneously= slide furniture with non planted foot...usually the right foot.
=Pick with wrist.

**princeplanet** · 06-15-2016, 03:06 PM

Dunno why it's such a big deal to pick fast, a lot of us had speed from way back in our rock days. Surely it's what to play with your technique, fast or otherwise. Speed without hundreds of great lines and the ability to combine them on the fly is 100% useless. Oberg has put most of his time in developing lines, not speed...

**MarkInLA** · 06-15-2016, 08:24 PM

I had to inject something about Oberg. I will probably never reach the ability to play at the tempi he achieves. That much is incredible; truly astounding !!! But (and you knew this was coming), he seems cold in his approach. The mechanics are all set for sure. But I don't get a warm, communicative feeling. It's like he's playing at me instead of to me..Yes, I wish I had his velocity. But, though his lines are maxed out (alla breve, double time, presto), they seem to be pre-learned in a way. It's like those metal guys, how they all keep playing that same pentatonic scale with their hammer-ons and tapping, up and down the board. It's all, to me, the blind leading the blind in that everyone of those bands all play nearly the same solos over and over while crying all the way to the bank. I'm sorry if I seem to be acting out of jealousy of Mr.Oberg. I am over his dexterity. But, unlike a Kessel, Pass, Montgomery, Benson, yada yada yada, I get no arts-centered emotion, communication from him. It's more like he's showing off by, right out of the gate, punching out his best stuff (presto/double time) instead of building a 'story' for us, a motif, about each number.....
To put it simpler, he's marvelous yet lacking something, soul-wise.....to me........M

**AlsoRan** · 06-15-2016, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by Robertkoa

Here's the same guy playing more from the wrist..more relaxed...faster but most importantly playing more -in time.

My Theory about" arm speed " is it's mostly a Myth and if you listen to guys who use it or think they are they usually are picking too hard for electric and the stiffness does not allow them to follow the contours of the strings OR the lines that they are playing = off time missed notes harsh tone.

Moving Furniture= use arm( and larger muscle groups )
Playing Guitar = use wrist

Moving Furniture AND playing guitar simultaneously= slide furniture with non planted foot...usually the right foot.
=Pick with wrist.

I agree with your assessment for most of the song, but I am sure that at 2:50 I saw the entire lower arm moving. He really put on the burners in that segment. It was hard to tell since I could not see the rest of his arm.

**AlsoRan** · 06-15-2016, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by MarkInLA

I had to inject something about Oberg. I will probably never reach the ability to play at the tempi he achieves. That much is incredible; truly astounding !!! But (and you knew this was coming), he seems cold in his approach. The mechanics are all set for sure. But I don't get a warm, communicative feeling. It's like he's playing at me instead of to me..Yes, I wish I had his velocity. But, though his lines are maxed out (alla breve, double time, presto), they seem to be pre-learned in a way. It's like those metal guys, how they all keep playing that same pentatonic scale with their hammer-ons and tapping, up and down the board. It's all, to me, the blind leading the blind in that everyone of those bands all play nearly the same solos over and over while crying all the way to the bank. I'm sorry if I seem to be acting out of jealousy of Mr.Oberg. I am over his dexterity. But, unlike a Kessel, Pass, Montgomery, Benson, yada yada yada, I get no arts-centered emotion, communication from him. It's more like he's showing off by, right out of the gate, punching out his best stuff (presto/double time) instead of building a 'story' for us, a motif, about each number.....
To put it simpler, he's marvelous yet lacking something, soul-wise.....to me........M

I understand where you are coming from but as lousy as I am, I just don't feel comfortable commenting on this fellow's or anyone's talent.

Now when I am better in a few years from now, then maybe.....

**Wayward Yak** · 06-24-2016, 04:22 PM

Around 10 years ago I went through a period of picking fast using the elbow. I'd always been a wrist player, but frankly I became lazy with my technique, and when presented with a sudden need to be able to play 16ths at 200bpm, I ended up using the elbow.

After a while though, the brutal shooting pains I started getting up my arm suggested quite strongly that I should stop. I put the time in to build my wrist-only speed back up, and the pain stopped. Even so many years later, if I for whatever reason pick from the elbow again, the nerve pain starts up again real quick.

So yeah, that's my experience with it. Obviously not everyone has that kind of bad experience with it, but I personally wouldn't recommend it.

**AlsoRan** · 06-25-2016, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Wayward Yak

Around 10 years ago I went through a period of picking fast using the elbow. I'd always been a wrist player, but frankly I became lazy with my technique, and when presented with a sudden need to be able to play 16ths at 200bpm, I ended up using the elbow.

After a while though, the brutal shooting pains I started getting up my arm suggested quite strongly that I should stop. I put the time in to build my wrist-only speed back up, and the pain stopped. Even so many years later, if I for whatever reason pick from the elbow again, the nerve pain starts up again real quick.

So yeah, that's my experience with it. Obviously not everyone has that kind of bad experience with it, but I personally wouldn't recommend it.

I have heard similar complaints over and over from several advanced players.

Thanks for sharing your experience. I am definitely taking heed!

**princeplanet** · 06-25-2016, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by Wayward Yak

.... when presented with a sudden need to be able to play 16ths at 200bpm, I ended up using the elbow......

Sudden need? Surely it's "desire"?... And yeah, there is a price to be paid in more ways than one when chasing speed. I'm happy with a controlled max of 16ths at 180, and even that's more than most will ever "need". Even most of the greats got by with less than that. I should have been happy with 150, really, as that's a kind of cutoff after which it's all prefab... For me, the years it took to go from 150 to 180 caused carpal tunnel issues as well as tennis elbow at separate times and both bad enough to have to stop for a while and seek medical help.

But the biggest price we pay chasing velocity is that we pay less attention to creating new melodies on the fly that come out nicely through whole tunes. That is more satisfying for a player than landing pre learned lines and devices at high speeds, as well as more satisfying for listeners, whether they're jazz educated or not.
So I say this for the speed freaks out there on a similar quest- be careful what you wish for!

**deacon Mark** · 06-25-2016, 04:02 PM

It is great to have the ability to do this but regardless at times I get enough. Now I can sit and listen to Jimmy Raney all day and never get tired but all the speed after awhile can get in the way. I can listen to Andre for sure but a constant blowing of notes is like a marathon runner trying to sprint his way through the finish. The points along the road you can vary the speed but it burns up my listen ears.

**AlsoRan** · 06-27-2016, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by princeplanet

Sudden need? Surely it's "desire"?... And yeah, there is a price to be paid in more ways than one when chasing speed. I'm happy with a controlled max of 16ths at 180, and even that's more than most will ever "need". Even most of the greats got by with less than that. I should have been happy with 150, really, as that's a kind of cutoff after which it's all prefab... For me, the years it took to go from 150 to 180 caused carpal tunnel issues as well as tennis elbow at separate times and both bad enough to have to stop for a while and seek medical help.

But the biggest price we pay chasing velocity is that we pay less attention to creating new melodies on the fly that come out nicely through whole tunes. That is more satisfying for a player than landing pre learned lines and devices at high speeds, as well as more satisfying for listeners, whether they're jazz educated or not.
So I say this for the speed freaks out there on a similar quest- be careful what you wish for!

I thought about your post a little over the last week. It does seem to be true, what you say.

Every advanced athlete that I know has some sort of tendonitis or muscle pain. My quest for speed started breaking me down as well so I had to back off.

Be careful what you wish for indeed! Everything comes at a price.