Polyrhythms

[Basshead]

Hi fellas, Im trying to learn more about Polyrhythms, Ive found this really cool video and Im wondering me if you guys got some pdf, online lessons or other similar videos, I enjoy reading the old Melodic Rhythms book from time to time, thats really helpful to get some timing, click on 2 and all that but I feel this whole Polyrhythms thing is another level, cheers!

[DonEsteban]

Basically he talks about 3 over 4 which is the most basic building block of almost all modern music, from Afro Cuban to Brazil to New Orleans to Jazz and Funk.

Some theory:

Learning Swing via Afro-Cuban Style

Here is a thread in this forum:

Counting and find the clave in everything


You'll find more stuff if you search for"Clave" or 3 over 4

[joelf]

You have to go to Africa & its diaspora offshoots. America is mostly a monorhythmic culture, b/c except for Sea Island, Ga., where the overseers didn't run the plantations, the hand drums were taken from the slaves. Masters feared their communicating from plantation to plantation---those drums could CARRY. (check out an interview w/Dizzy in Milwaukee on this---it's on youtube). But in the Caribbean the slaves were allowed to keep the hand drums, thus a polyrhythmic approach that was brought from Africa continued and developed.

These rhythms had deep spiritual implications, and are part of Santeria rituals. I ran into Victor Lewis Sunday night and we were talking about this. I didn't know that the Santeria drummers have to be 'ordained': there are 12 deities, each with his own rhythm. To be ordained the elders test a drummer and he has to master all 12. Victor said Don Alias is ordained.

So this stuff goes deep. Yes, there certainly are polyrhythms and metric subdividing/mixing in classical music, but jazz comes from African roots. Yes, people like Lennie Tristano used polyrhythms and metric mixing and displacement very effectively, but the earliest jazz is linked to the African influence.

I realize your question is directed toward the guitar, but rhythm is rhythm---and guitar was exclusively a rhythm instrument in jazz pre-amplification. Maybe for practice it would be good to get a programmable rhythm machine and experiment. I have a cheap, basic Korg Mini. I could program some things, but I'm a techno-moron. I just use it to have something to play against in solo situations.

Good luck!...

[Gabor]

...the oldest "polyrhythm" is the triplet... 3 over 4 is also that (just take the half tempo 2 within the 4, we got 3 over 2, which is the triplet.) I am pretty happy with this, I definitely do not want to play 7 over 8 like clockwork.

The more i think is for drummers, when the evennes may be important. For improvisation the evennes are *rare*. We even do not play the 8ths in even, neither the triplets, instead with free lag (or some notes in rush) according how the musical phrase requires. So if I play 5 over 4 that is a natural process, playing 5 notes in a bar, in a not perfect even rhythm just freely, it happens to e 5, really do not know how the most close score would be describe it, one for sure, the 5 over 4 notation will be overkill, becase it was not an even 5 over 4.

Hard to describe what I mean, but listen for example Dexter Gordon. Even in mid/fast tempos, it is literally impossible to describe his solos in the 16th, 8th 4th system, (still we do it, as an approx hint) because he is floating over the base swing rythm. Clockwork is as far from his rythm as it could be. To get this feeling or similar the musician must go the exact opposite direction from the clockwork like polyrhythm concept.

of course all of above is for jazz. Other genres, like latin, or composed drum music (Cage) may utilize polyrhythms.

[joelf]

Basically he talks about 3 over 4 which is the most basic building block of almost all modern music, from Afro Cuban to Brazil to New Orleans to Jazz and Funk.

Some theory:

Learning Swing via Afro-Cuban Style

Here is a thread in this forum:

Counting and find the clave in everything


You'll find more stuff if you search for"Clave" or 3 over 4

I didn't mention clave, and it's important.

Hope I didn't sound like a self-appointed rhythm authority earlier. I'm actually as unknowledgeable as most American musicians on ALL this stuff and want very much to get it together. Any jazzman who's not a rhythm man is 2/3 of a musician...

[joelf]

Meant 'owners', not 'overseers' in above post. Having trouble with this site getting jammed...

[patshep]

America is mostly a monorhythmic culture,

this is kind of insulting to black americans, who've been here for 400 years, and hasn't been true since way before most of us were born, jazz and blues have been around a minute, as well as hip hop, funk etc.. You don't seem to understand that America (the USA) is a melting pot of rhythms, is not completely white, and has had many cultures (not only african) add to our musical languages.

[joelf]

this is kind of insulting to black americans, who've been here for 400 years, and hasn't been true since way before most of us were born, jazz and blues have been around a minute, as well as hip hop, funk etc.. You don't seem to understand that America (the USA) is a melting pot of rhythms, is not completely white, and has had many cultures (not only african) add to our musical languages.

And you don't understand ME, if you can infer that from what I wrote.

Good luck with everything...

[Basshead]

Slow Blues is a bitch...

[COLOR=var(--blue-link)]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hv-TYlzQXc
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[JanLF]

Bret Willmott’s excellent “Time for the future” and maybe you’ll also will enjoy Jonathan Kreisberg’s “Polyrhythmic Guitar” on Mymusicmasterclass.


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