Approach notes and enclosures anyone?

**Reg** · 10-10-2012, 11:55 AM

OK... I'll make a couple videos today...

But before I post them...

It seems most of you want to ignore what you don't want to deal with.

Lets deal with a very slow simple example of enclosures... A triad, "F"

So we have F, A and C . That is a harmonic structure there are relationships between the notes within the structure it's self. We hear and see as a Fmaj. triad. Because there is no context... and keeping it basic... that's it. If you would rather call that a melodic figure... F A C OK. still implies Fmaj triad. Again keeping things basic...simple and slow.

Now lets mechanically enclose each of those notes...
f#, e, F... a#, g#, A... c#, b, C.

You can chose to ignore what those enclosure notes create... but they are still creating new relationships, harmonic and melodic relationships.

If you want to stay "mechanical" with your approach to what notes you use to enclose with... your going to still create harmonic relationships... usually they become very muddy and lots of conflicts.

Sure you can simply use your ears and adjust... the memorize and perform practice... and if you have exceptional ears and are one of those exceptional players... you might make it happen.

Getting back to the enclosure notes... e, f#, g#, a#, b, c#

You could hear as simply constant structure triads from above and below... with inversions, resulting in F# and E triads... which enclosure the target F triad. usually a little thick but works. really straight with not much relation to jazz.

When you actually play... constant structure generally becomes more of playing outside, better for rock players... good for a few listens. As your ears develop... they loose their initial wow factor, you begin to hear what they are... or not.

The bigger conflicts develop when you play more than triads and add more changes... leads to chromaticism very quickly. Sure can be cool and sound hip first few listens... but hardly reflects playing in jazz style.

The standard use of source for enclosures is from Dominant application and with jazz... Dominant / Blue notes.

So the simple approach would just adjust the enclosure notes to imply
a subV... with our F triad example, Gb7. The actual enclosure notes,
e,f#,g#,a#,b,c# become fb,gb,bb,cb,db.fb,gb... rearrange to reflect,

Gb7 add 9,11

If you continued your enclosure to cover the maj 7th of Fmaj triad. the "E". Mechanically you would use f and d# or if you we're using a dom. approach with your enclosure application... you would change the "D#" to E or in reference to The Gb7... Fb, the b7th of Gb7.

OK... that's very simple and if you play through... you will hear. Or maybe you won't. I can hear and most of my musician friends hear. Some can't verbally explain, or don't really care to verbally explain... but their playing does imply and reflect conscious choices.

I'll try and get a video of this concept up later... both simple and with actual usage... maybe bebop changes, some blues and sample of maj and min examples... all in same key or tonal area so changes can be heard. I should probably add Melodic Min....
Reg

**Reg** · 10-10-2012, 12:06 PM

Hey Jake... nice example.

**Reg** · 10-10-2012, 07:59 PM

Here's first video... It's pretty lousy... sorry, I'm tired and just winged it, I had rehearsal this afternoon and have big band gig tonight. I'll simplify some of the examples and try and make easier to hear and see tomorrow. Playing jazz is generally not in slow motion. ( and I'm watching Giants game)

But as I always preach, when you play, comping or soloing... your choices of what to play besides the basic changes or what ever type of melodic ornamentation... approach, enclose, auxiliary, neighbors, sequence, etc... they all have harmonic relationships.... they or how you use them imply harmonic references.

**JakeAcci** · 10-11-2012, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Reg

It seems most of you want to ignore what you don't want to deal with.

I think the method I posted above could be applied (in the practice room) still acknowledging harmonic implications of different chromatic approaches.

By the way, some interesting use of chromaticism, here:

(not really bebop, but gud juzz)

http://kevinrose21.home.comcast.net/...1/jarrett1.jpg

http://kevinrose21.home.comcast.net/...1/jarrett2.jpg

http://kevinrose21.home.comcast.net/...1/jarrett3.jpg

Using different enclosures in different harmonic territories, pulling from (or to) different harmonies. Measures 29-30 are interesting.

**Reg** · 10-11-2012, 02:31 AM

Originally Posted by JakeAcci

I think the method I posted above could be applied (in the practice room) still acknowledging harmonic implications of different chromatic approaches.

By the way, some interesting use of chromaticism, here:

(not really bebop, but gud juzz)

http://kevinrose21.home.comcast.net/...1/jarrett1.jpg

http://kevinrose21.home.comcast.net/...1/jarrett2.jpg

http://kevinrose21.home.comcast.net/...1/jarrett3.jpg

Using different enclosures in different harmonic territories, pulling from (or to) different harmonies. Measures 29-30 are interesting.

Yea Jake...the study you posted earlier would be great practice and should be practiced with some type of reference... So once you got the mechanical or fretboard skills together, you could concentrate on what or how you want to reference harmonic concepts. Or if you don't like thinking about harmonic concepts ...some method to organize your choice of notes. Could be like playing memorized licks with different versions... To reflect the context or change the context.

Have you already done analysis of transcript... I'll read through when I get home

When you quote my statement by it's self...seems a little harsh...oops.
The bebop style takes a few days of playing to actually start covering... I'll try and post something again a little more representive. But I'm really just tying to get the harmonic referencing concept going. Your a great guitarist' I've listen to some of your examples...would be cool to hear some of your references or how you approach... Time to go....

**Moonray** · 10-11-2012, 05:02 AM

Hey Mark, that vol 5 of Bergonzi is one great resource alright.

For others that may not have seen the book and are wondering why it is
mentioned in this thread's context.....It contains a section many pages in
length explaining and demonstrating enclosures from 2 note up to multi-note
shapes.
I would recommend vol 5 as the most useful one volume work on the subject of jazz vocab. [And the best in the series]
I have all Gonz's books, but keep returning to this one for new approaches,
or just some kind of reassurance.
..Also, I would really highly suggest to check out his 2 DVD's from Jazz
Heaven.com on: yep....jazz vocabulary....a wonderful exposition of how
you could use and develop the ideas in vol 5......
There's around 30 minutes [give or take] on the enclosures alone in vol1[DVD]
If you were to carry out his instruction, you'd be a gun on this stuff>

**Moonray** · 10-11-2012, 05:16 AM

Reg....Thanks heaps for your vid.

You're really tearing it up.....certainly puts a hot foot under me.

You hit on some very interesting points there re harmonizing around chord
tones [demonstrating with chord structures ]....

Just one request if I'm not asking too much, I wonder if you could slow the
presentation just a little, mainly in your talk through before each demo.

Don't mean with regard your playing speed....this is bebop right.
...Blaze away man.
But it can be a little tricky to pick up what you're telling us just before you
hit.
Hope I'm not out of line ....I really dig what you're offering us here and
just want to be sure of your meaning re the demos.

Cheers MJP

**princeplanet** · 10-11-2012, 07:29 AM

Originally Posted by Moonray

Reg....Thanks heaps for your vid.

You're really tearing it up.....certainly puts a hot foot under me.

You hit on some very interesting points there re harmonizing around chord
tones [demonstrating with chord structures ]....

Just one request if I'm not asking too much, I wonder if you could slow the
presentation just a little, mainly in your talk through before each demo.

Don't mean with regard your playing speed....this is bebop right.
...Blaze away man.
But it can be a little tricky to pick up what you're telling us just before you
hit.
Hope I'm not out of line ....I really dig what you're offering us here and
just want to be sure of your meaning re the demos.

Cheers MJP

I'm glad I'm not the only one around here that feels Reg goes over my head a little... but yeah Reg, if you could slow it down a little, I'd appreciate it even more!

**Reg** · 10-11-2012, 11:16 AM

Yes.. sorry to all... for some pushy comments... not the opinions, my posting, how I presented and lousy Video. I have a private lesson this AM, when I get back I'll post SLOW... example of melody or line through 8 bars of simple changes. Then the detail I'll go through... which is what most don't cover in their teaching... is how and what you use to add notes, ornament, embellish... mechanical or other wise will imply added chords, changes to chords through modal interchange or other standard jazz practice. It's not complicated, and if you take the time to teach your ears the differences... your playing will go from being a guitarist who plays jazz tunes to a jazz guitarist playing tunes... well that might be pushing it, but...

It's not what notes you play... it's how you play the notes...

Reg

**Moonray** · 10-11-2012, 08:04 PM

Thanks for your response Reg.

I'm spending time right now on embellishments like chromatic approaches
enclosures...all these names...so I have a special interest in this general topic.

Really interested to hear your further thoughts on them.

Like quite a few of us I've used such sounds without calling them
anything.....I would just continue doing that if it weren't for the jazz
education machine...once the genie is out of the bottle etc....

Thanks again for posting in the forums....I enjoy the energy that you bring.

**keith** · 10-12-2012, 10:11 AM

Yes Thanks Reg for posting the video! Always helpful to hear someone of your skill set play.

**Reg** · 10-12-2012, 11:06 AM

Here's a slower and hopefully simple set of relationships from starting melody and changes. ( see attached file)

The 1st four bars are what could be a starting point.
Dmin. Bb7, A7. You play a chord tone line.

The second time through the four bars...you start to develop, you enclose a few of the chord tones.

When you chromatically enclose... the notes are from somewhere. In the 1st bar, the F#(Gb) and E enclose the F...

The E works fine easy relationship, but the F# or Gb changes the implied harmonic area implied from the changes and the melodic figure. Generally chromatic enclosures imply dominant application... you could say the F# and E are from A7. Typical Dominant chord.
Or you could add a Secondary Dom. chord... E7 for the F# and then A7 for the E. Very traditional...simple, very Maj/Min functional sounding...

I didn't bother to get into the constant structure approach... using D#min and C#min. Not really an approach... simply mechanical. OK, does develop into an approach... I'll waste time on that approach later.

So now I'll get into jazz approaches...
I'll change that F# or Gb into a G... the approach would become G, E enclosing F. The reason I do this is because I want to reflect the implications of where I'm pulling from... I want to use Jazz harmonic practice. I want to open Melodic Minor, which opens jazz use of Blue Notes....

The next concept is a little more difficult to understand.... When we play music... most generally use Western classical Tradition... Major/Minor functional harmonic practice as guidelines for controlling relationships... this practice reflects tonality... which defines which notes create the relationships.... which control function... the guidelines of how and where Harmony goes... voice leading and resolutions.

This is obviously very simplified... but moving on. We as jazz players also practice this tradition... and a few more. My use of example above should help show a few.

When I change the enclosure to reflect different harmonic choices, one of the reasons... I want to open use of Melodic Minor...

1) I have the option of giving source for Blue notes

2) I have the option of using Melodic Minor in any number of different Modal styles of defining Tonal references. I can change which notes I want to define functional relationships.... the where and why notes and chords go where they do. (I'll expand later)

3) Melodic Minor can in many contexts, have multi- functional relationships going on at same time. Somewhat like multi-tonic concepts. But without the traditional functional relationships.

Example ... From above. D- , Bb7, A7. I Modal interchange, or how ever you choose to label, Dmin. becomes D melodic Minor.

Bb7 becomes Bb lydian b7 from 4th degree of F melodic min.

A7 becomes A7 alt, from 7th degree of Bb melodic minor

I now have three tonal areas going on, D, F and Bb mel.min.

I don't think F melodic min when I say or play Bb lyd b7... or Bb MM when playing A7alt... each harmonic area reflects itself... but

*when I open any harmonic area with source from Melodic Min... I now have access to any other harmonic area with same melodic min source.

That D mel min gives me access to G7 lyd b7... any of the chordal harmonic areas from any note from that D mm source... It's not quite that simple... and how you use any of those harmonic areas... has many relationships... there is always a balance which reflects all the relationships.

It's very difficult to balance what your unaware of.

OK I'm sure this has a few to many levels of too many relationships... I'll make a simple video of the example... a little cheesy but should work...
Reg

**frajazzamico** · 10-12-2012, 02:35 PM

I wouldn't be afraid of practicing more material...However, I love practicing what sounds good to me and do my best to stay away from what I "should" practice...

**jopheza** · 10-12-2012, 03:23 PM

Jerry Bergonzi's books are very good.

**docbop** · 10-12-2012, 04:19 PM

Originally Posted by jopheza

Jerry Bergonzi's books are very good.

I just order book 6 and looking forward to it getting here. I have his Jazz Heaven DVD's and they cover the stuff but the books appear to have far more detail.

**Reg** · 10-13-2012, 12:52 PM

I think I am going to move back to my thread, but I'll make one more post here... somewhat to put a pause in what we, I'm talking about.

But I read through some posts on Mercybeat's ...Been a while... and I was reminded of a very important point... Almost with everything in music...there is'
1) Form of... the physical shape and organization of space or whatever your playing... which leads to,

2) Form in...the melodic, harmonic and rhythmic etc... organization and relationships of Concepts and their Applications... what your playing inside of the "Form Of"

The two obviously are connected and have relationships... but are very easily though of as two different aspects of playing. And generally until your able to naturally be aware of the two aspects... you know... the keep it simple approach, don't think, just play. It's much easier to think and concentrate on the two aspects.

The Form of part begins very simple... form of tunes, AABA etc.. There are interludes and open sections etc... lots of room for freedom. But there standard practices and you should be aware of them. I'm not going to get into the next level of concepts regarding "Form of", I will later.

So the, "Form in", is what we we're generally breaking down with enclosures... The Form of part would be what form we we're using to develop the line or notes.

We all are aware of, call and answer, tension and release, any of the back and forth, "Form Of" shapes used for development of melodic lines, ( or harmonic lines). There are variations... A, A', A'' etc... any of the 10 stage methods of development, even to the point where the line becomes a new line.

Anyway most methods, approaches, concepts and their applications to develop the "Form In" as well as the shape or "Form OF", there being developed within have levels of use.

That Form of shape... call and answer can become Call, Call, Answer or a new part could be added...Call, Call, Answer, Shout...

And the "Form In" detail... lets say your Call part is a Mixolydian line and your Answer is a Blue note line. You could add Dorian relationship to your Mixolydian ... even worse, open the Melodic Min set of relationships...

Very long story short... you can break down your thinking to simply deal with two aspects.... The physical space... Form Of and organization of the space, Form In. The reason mercybeat's post reminded me was Martino's simple use of a few ideas over everything. And It does somewhat work.

I made another video of harmonic considerations with use of approach or enclosure notes... and now see I need to make an outline to work from... I'll post the video for probably not much more than entertainment... and redo and post on my Reg's thread in the Theory Section. Also with a verbal breakdown of Video. (my outline).
Thanks Reg