classic fingering for the blues scale?

[Groyniad]

i feel a bit shy of asking this sort of thing - but damn it - i want to know!

endless fingerings obviously - obviously

of all the possible fingerings is there one that sticks out as the one most guys tend to use?

this could be two octave or one - or even fingering patterns that don't span a whole octave but deserve mention because they are just used all the time when playing bluesy ideas (typically with 'the blues scale')

thank you for your expertise !

[GuitarGerry]

I rarely play the whole scale. Usually noodle around bits of it. When I do play it over any span, I usually resolve the min 3rd by playing a maj 3rd afterwards. Essentially, you end up with a dom 7 arpeggio with a little chromatic ornamentation around the 3rd. I couldn't tell you what fingering I use though! (whatever works would be my advice).

[M-ster]

Seems like, for starters, you'd look at your 5 pentatonic scale shapes and just insert the extra note. If you look at A minor pentatonic (A, C, D, E, G), the "extra note" is Eb.

I'd guess that every guitarist on the planet knows this one (in tab):

E -- 5 --
B ------ 8 -- 5 --
G --------------- 8 -- 7 -- 5 --
D ----------------------------- 7 -- 5 --
A -------------------------------------- 7 -- 6 -- 5 --
E ---------------------------------------------------- 8 -- 5 --

Take some time and work out the other positions.

[Groyniad]

yes indeed, thanks for setting that out. i'm sure its the best known pattern of all on the fretboard.

i should refine my question.

this ultra familiar pattern - straight across the fingerboard in the same 'position' - has some undesirable musical features. its practical - easy to see and learn. but - for one thing - it requires a string change in the upper register between the fifth and the flatted fifth and this makes lots of intuitive phrases hard to play nicely.

so i guess what i'm asking is if there is a classic way to play this scale that moves through different positions - up and down - so as to avoid clunky phrasing. (of course there are many many ways to do this - and all, or most, are worth exploring. my question is whether there's a classic way to do it). i should watch a bunch of bb king videos.

[christianm77]

yes indeed, thanks for setting that out. i'm sure its the best known pattern of all on the fretboard.

i should refine my question.

this ultra familiar pattern - straight across the fingerboard in the same 'position' - has some undesirable musical features. its practical - easy to see and learn. but - for one thing - it requires a string change in the upper register between the fifth and the flatted fifth and this makes lots of intuitive phrases hard to play nicely.

so i guess what i'm asking is if there is a classic way to play this scale that moves through different positions - up and down - so as to avoid clunky phrasing. (of course there are many many ways to do this - and all, or most, are worth exploring. my question is whether there's a classic way to do it). i should watch a bunch of bb king videos.

I'm a fan of the two fingered diagonal pattern using the 1st and 3rd finger. You can think of it as an extension of the standard shape. If we add in finger number 2, the blues scale is much easier. You have the option of where to shift, which fingers etc.

Also the shifts are very musical. I really like the sound of diagonal, shifty, playing.... Position playing can be a bit clinical.

Also, a very big range of the fretboard covered by this shape.

E ------------------------------------------------8--(9)--10
B ----------------------------------------8--10
G -------------------------5--7--(8)--9
D ------------------5--7
A ---3--5--(6)--7
E 5

Notice how it follows the octave shapes..

The diagonal shape in E minor is important too. Hendrix used this kind of playing a lot - watching him play, he spends a lot of time in the mid range of the guitar, even though he uses the 12 fret standard box for soloing a lot too. I'm thinking Voodoo Chile intro, Purple Haze main riff etc - baritone range guitar playing.

E --------------------------------------------------------------------10--12
B --------------------------------------------------8--10--11--12
G ------------------------------------------7---9
D --------------------------5--7--(8)--9
A -------------------5--7
E 0--3--5--(6)--7

Again, a series of BB King boxes linked in octave patterns...

[fumblefingers]

B.B. King vids for shifting between blues "boxes"? Maybe Alvin Lee videos, or Hendrix or Clapton.

But then, those go by a bit fast.

For G Blues, try shifting from the 3rd position to the 6th position on the 3rd string, landing with the 2nd finger. That's a classic one.

[Groyniad]

this is great stuff - thanks everyone! just what i was after...

[Groyniad]

I'm a fan of the two fingered diagonal pattern using the 1st and 3rd finger. You can think of it as an extension of the standard shape. If we add in finger number 2, the blues scale is much easier. You have the option of where to shift, which fingers etc.

Also the shifts are very musical. I really like the sound of diagonal, shifty, playing.... Position playing can be a bit clinical.

Also, a very big range of the fretboard covered by this shape.

E ------------------------------------------------8--(9)--10
B ----------------------------------------8--10
G -------------------------5--7--(8)--9
D ------------------5--7
A ---3--5--(6)--7
E 5

Notice how it follows the octave shapes..

The diagonal shape in E minor is important too. Hendrix used this kind of playing a lot - watching him play, he spends a lot of time in the mid range of the guitar, even though he uses the 12 fret standard box for soloing a lot too. I'm thinking Voodoo Chile intro, Purple Haze main riff etc - baritone range guitar playing.

E --------------------------------------------------------------------10--12
B --------------------------------------------------8--10--11--12
G ------------------------------------------7---9
D --------------------------5--7--(8)--9
A -------------------5--7
E 0--3--5--(6)--7

Again, a series of BB King boxes linked in octave patterns...

i think this is the thing i'm after - thanks c77. i agree with you about the sound of position playing - i think this sound and this two finger fingering pattern should help loosen things up.

[Irez87]

So there are limits to positional playing

I kid, I kid. Chris '77's diagonal idea seems like it would work better to figure out those McCoy pentatonic lines. I got a video from Larry Koonse about the McCoy/ Coltrane Pentatonic sound. It is really open, you can craft some nifty modulating ideas with these cells. I can't wait to use em at my next big show jam session. I wanna open with a flurry of em and then simmer down to some Lester Young inspired lines, just to make a point. These young lions love their pentatonics, and taking longer solos than need be at jam sessions

[matt.guitarteacher]

You might also work on playing some blues lines by horn players etc. I played through some a while back from a trumpet player and was struck by how different they were from typical guitar-sounding licks. Sometimes we don't realize how much the fingering dictates what we play. The mostly 2-notes-per-string fingerings of pentatonics and blues especially so I'd think.

I guess I need to work all the intervals of the blues scale the way we typically do with other scales...

[christianm77]

I know it's a bit of a guitar geek thing to say, but Eric Johnson has some nice stuff going on with pentatonics. Groups of five etc, unusual vocabulary for a guitarist even though it's all pentatonic.

[matt.guitarteacher]

I know it's a bit of a guitar geek thing to say, but Eric Johnson has some nice stuff going on with pentatonics. Groups of five etc, unusual vocabulary for a guitarist even though it's all pentatonic.

Groups of 5? You talking about sequencing with 5-note groupings?

[setemupjoe]

I posted this on another thread a few weeks ago but it seems to fit the OP's question.

[Groyniad]

thanks for that setemup!

i tend to concentrate on horn players - for no reason except that i often find myself wanting to play what they're playing

but that - i think - has led me to neglect important guitar-based techniques for moving around the place in a flowing and musical way. i play across the neck in positions a great deal and the more i move away from this to playing up and down the neck the more i think the position-based fingerings create musical problems.

a pattern across the neck is easier to see at a glance than a pattern than moves a distance up or down the neck. if you're hell bent on visualizing patterns on the neck then position playing is seductive. but the string changes happen at musically random times - and the string change pattern has a strong effect on the shape or weighting of the phrase. if you keep playing lines or melodies in a way that's determined by the shape of the fretboard rather than the shape of the line or melody you're playing, you start to internalize musically senseless phrasing. i hate this.

django and wes don't use position playing really at all (surely)

[henryrobinett]

These are the basic Blues Scales I teach. I have extended versions as well. I think the most common are shapes 3 and 5.

[christianm77]

Groups of 5? You talking about sequencing with 5-note groupings?

Yes, as in the lick he often plays (in semiquavers/16ths):

E 15--12
B ----------15--12-------15--12
G --------------------14------------14--12-------14--12
D ---------------------------------------------14------------14--12
A ----------------------------------------------------------------------14
E

Etc. Quite a guitaristic lick (and in our 12 fret blues position) except for the little leap each time through the sequence, which gives a slightly 'exotic' quality (along with the rhythm)

PS: this works very well with Gypsy picking

[christianm77]

thanks for that setemup!

i tend to concentrate on horn players - for no reason except that i often find myself wanting to play what they're playing

but that - i think - has led me to neglect important guitar-based techniques for moving around the place in a flowing and musical way. i play across the neck in positions a great deal and the more i move away from this to playing up and down the neck the more i think the position-based fingerings create musical problems.

a pattern across the neck is easier to see at a glance than a pattern than moves a distance up or down the neck. if you're hell bent on visualizing patterns on the neck then position playing is seductive. but the string changes happen at musically random times - and the string change pattern has a strong effect on the shape or weighting of the phrase. if you keep playing lines or melodies in a way that's determined by the shape of the fretboard rather than the shape of the line or melody you're playing, you start to internalize musically senseless phrasing. i hate this.

django and wes don't use position playing really at all (surely)

Also Jimi and Pat Metheny are not really position based.

It kind of makes me think that position based playing can be a bit of blind alley. The best players (the ones I like the best) seem to play melodies in the most musical, natural way.

Scott Henderson's 'one string melody exercise' is good for this.

I find if I learn stuff by ear then I tend to do a lot of shifting naturally.

On the other hand I read an interview with Al DiMeola where he said that his selling point as a player is that he did do the positional seven note scale thing, which was unusual in the 70s. Most players were blues box based at this point.

[M-ster]

Just noting that Henry's shape 5 is the same that I notated in post 3, along with the recommendation to "work out the other positions." However, the OP dismissed my post, but now "likes" Henry's ... ?

Maybe I need to add more images to my posts?

Just saying ...

[henryrobinett]

My shape 5 is better than yours.

[wolflen]

I have been working on "goodbye pork pie hat"..now this was written by a bass player who experienced things in life most of us cannot imagine..the melody is hypnotic..melancholy..and very deliberate..not a note is by chance..

it is a new Orleans funeral march of the finest order..it demands deep breaths and tears..we must hear it as written by Mingus..played by Mingus..here is one of the best takes of this classic..

now using the "blues scale" .. yes we know the patterns..but how to get every drop of feeling out of each note to make it the "blues" as in pork pie..that the notes punch you..you feel them..you want them..that kind of energy..passion..its the blues..play it "as" the blues..not "like" the blues..

[Irez87]

Here's an idea:

Transcribe the singing of the followin:

BB King

Buddy Guy

Louie Jordan

Albert King

Elmore James

Etta James

Ma Rainey

Blues men and women were about singing first, and playing their instrument (be it guitar or harp) second. Heck, transcribe the phrasing of a sermon by a preacher (Dan Carillo, when he taught at CCNY, gave me that excellent tidbit. He was a preacher himself, but I actually dig that advice).

That, my friends, will teach you how to use the blues scale. As great as SRV was (RIP), I am sure that he would agree.

[MarkRhodes]

Here's an idea:

Transcribe the singing of the followin:

BB King

Buddy Guy

Louie Jordan

Albert King

Elmore James

Etta James

Ma Rainey

Blues men and women were about singing first, and playing their instrument (be it guitar or harp) second. Heck, transcribe the phrasing of a sermon by a preacher (Dan Carillo, when he taught at CCNY, gave me that excellent tidbit. He was a preacher himself, but I actually dig that advice).

That, my friends, will teach you how to use the blues scale. As great as SRV was (RIP), I am sure that he would agree.

That is great advice. I would add Freddie King to the list.

[ragman1]

Presumably you're not going to play the blues scale just up and down like that. The best way is the pattern nearest where the preceding phrase leaves off. And presumably taking you to where you start the next one.

It also depends on the sound you want to make. Although that's probably secondary.