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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
I doubt Barry would have reprimanded us for using the major 6th haha. But it’s interesting he didn’t.
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07-05-2024 03:53 AM
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It’s funny how when discussing that a musician played on a tune, discussion often pivots to what you ‘can do’ theoretically, as if this has anything to do with listening to what, say, Bird actually did.
I think you ‘can do’ this is a common framing in more modern jazz education especially that which focussed on post modal music.
I mean you ‘can’ do lots of things, but not everything will sound idiomatic. And bop is 90% idiom.
Barry’s framing was almost always - ‘do this, it sounds great.’ He taught idioms not theory a lot of the time.
I think there might be a video in this .
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
To be clear, I’m aware of the strategy of playing the lower sibling dominant and ending on the third of the dominant for a minor ii-V, but it simply isn’t clear to me what Barry Harris teaches as idiomatic to do over a tonic minor.
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Originally Posted by rlrhett
That said - there’s a bit more info in DVD set II. Mostly stuff on how to add notes to the harmonic minor and so on
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
The harmonised 'sixth diminished scale' is very effective as a swing vehicle but it's hardly of his invention.Other teachers explain it much more clearly by providing written examples.
I love what he plays when he is playing standards, but his teaching style, well...
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Here's a particularly striking example (is it one of Bird's more obscure quotes?) from Segment:
Notably, he finishes a number of phrases on that step:
...and another from Diverse:
I'm still amazed how CP could roll out such long, incredibly balanced and beautiful melodic lines as those in the last two examples at blistering tempos!
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It's also interesting that Parker mostly treats the ii chord in the bridge as a plain minor rather than half diminished (Fm7-Bb7-Ebm) once again stressing the 6th degree against the temporary tonic minor (the 'C' of Fm against Ebm).
Incidentally, my daughter is a professional jazz singer. It was only when we were transposing the standard, Love Me or Leave Me to Bb minor for a gig that I realised Segment is basically a contrafact of that tune apart from a resolution to the relative major at the end of the 2nd 'A'.Last edited by PMB; 07-06-2024 at 08:30 AM.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Edit: Oh PMB - jinx
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Originally Posted by Irishmuso
Some written materials were in circulation, but Barry was about the oral tradition. That was the big thing I took away.
Barry never claimed to have invented this stuff. He’d probably have told you Chopin came up with it or something.
Honestly how Barry taught this stuff is terribly important. It’s not just another branch of jazz theory, it’s about doing, not thinking. The terminology is to be terse and specific.
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You can hear Barry playing tonic minor stuff here (his solo starts about 2:30). Sounds like some min6/dim-type lines to me.
He certainly emphasises the 6th a lot (I think Charlie Christian did this too, on Swing to Bop, aka Topsy).
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Originally Posted by PMB
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Chris Parks did an episode on building minor lines, as you’d expect it’s based on min6/dim lines.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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I just discovered something, I thought I'd share.
This is a new application of the major sixth diminished scale that never occured to me before.
C6o = E Phrygian dominant + #9
Phrygian dominant with an added #9 is a very conventional altered dominant scale (harmonic minor with a b7 from the tonic point of view).
Turns out you can play C6o to play E7alt chord scale. More over the diminished chord of C6o becomes the diminished from the b9 of E7 as you'd want (ie F diminished).Last edited by Tal_175; 08-09-2024 at 08:57 AM.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Super handy.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
Edim7 : A7
E : 5
G : b7
Bb : b9
C# : 3
Starting a phrase late
Yesterday, 11:19 PM in Improvisation