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Recently, I've been listening to as many young players as possible. Of course, not in the clubs, but on YouTube. And, my impression is that there are hordes of young players who play at a very high level that took 20 plus years for musicians to achieve in my generation(exceptions being savants-Chet, Miles, Corea, etc.). Their technical abilities/skills are phenomenal. However, I rarely hear them playing ballads-- only fast tempo pieces. The litmus test, for me, for a musician is how he/she interprets the music not how fast they can play since we are not music machines, but rather, sensoriums of the human condition as interpreted through our music. And, there is no better test of musicianship than a personal interpretation of a beautiful ballad because you cannot hide behind flurries of notes, mathematical formulations for improvisation, or stolen solos from the "greats." The reason, I believe, is that they are being churned out by Jazz Music programs around the country who approach Music as a Science rather than an Art. And, they are producing phenomenal technicians but are they really generating creative musicians? And, sadly, the old path of earning your chops in the clubs over many years of performing has morphed into intensive training at a university and YT video career. The clubs are disappearing and creative music, as we know it, will be changed forever. So, here's Chad Lefkowitz-Brown playing "Giant Steps" followed by "My One and Only Love." Then, followed by Coltrane with Johnny Hartman. Chad is an outstanding musician, perhaps a savant, but in my opinion, his ballad style has a thin sound and lacks warmth and conviction and quickly after the initial statement, he returns to his comfort zone of sheets of sounds as we hear in his "Giant Steps" which, however, is very impressive. What do you think?
Play live . . . Marinero
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03-21-2021 12:41 PM
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There’s a red bird in the corner and a blackbird at my door
Last edited by BFrench; 03-22-2021 at 08:22 AM. Reason: zebron
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yea never heard that before, LOL.
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Eye of the beholder maybe ?
! Warning: sacralidge ahead !
There are some of the jazz greats that I don't really appreciate, much. That's my taste, not theirs, right ?
It could be that there's a lot more musicians that come, right to your desktop these days. I just found out that there actually is a School of Rock...I thought that was a movie,...how long has that been around ?
It reminds me of the Van Halen phenomena. I was never a big fan, but he inspired a bunch of kids to pick up the guitar. Many of them seemed to have missed the boat, to my ears anyway. Eddie was actually playing songs, a lot of these kids just wanted to wail away on a scale ... some of them made it big, people liked that.
I can't be too critical. "Overly technical", or rather "flail than feel", that's just me rationalizing my taste. For all I know, someone has heard me and thought, "what a putz" -lol
This stuff can be interesting to talk about though,... especially since we have all this extra time on our hands
Cheers,
Mike
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I agree with your premise and find that I'm way too often guilty of trying to "fill in the holes" with notes. I struggle at times to fit my playing to the emotion I'm trying to convey.
One of my guitar "heroes" is Robin Trower. No, he's not a jazz guitarist, he's an electric blues guitarist. But I have heard Trower put more emotion into a single, sustained note, than many highly proficient, technical speedsters.
The word that always baffles and amazes me is, "phrasing." The concept eludes me frequently, but when I'm in the groove, I find the emotive quality of my playing increases exponentially.
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I found CLB's version of My One and Only Love quite beautiful. I think the way he came in on his solo playing fast/double-time worked really well as a contrast to the bass solo coming right after the head. I like the way he built to a peak and then worked his way down, especially the way he came back to the head in straight time while the band stayed in double time, which gave him another place to go with the coda. Also, check out the interaction with the piano. Very responsive to each other, and I like the way CLB keeps his intensity somewhat low on the head, while the pianist does most of the ornaments and fills. All in all, I think it's a sensitively crafted and interesting performance. In terms of tone and aesthetic, what you call "thin" just strikes me as reference to Micheal Brecker, not as a failure to be Trane. Beyond that, consider that Trane was making a record with a singer and playing something that fit with that. CLB's concept is different on this performance for valid reasons. Evidence that he's a thoughtful and mature musician, not a savant at all.
John
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" In terms of tone and aesthetic, what you call "thin" just strikes me as reference to Micheal Brecker, not as a failure to be Trane."
John A
Hi, J,
As a former saxer, "cooking" (playing up-tempo) cannot reveal a musicians complete sound so it's very difficult to judge a player unless you hear the total package--ballads. Coltrane, IMO, would not be an example of a player with a big lush sound a la Gene Ammons, Dexter, Coleman Hawkins, Ben Webster, Illinois Jacquet, Zoot Sims, etc but he didn't have a "thin" sound nor did Michael Brecker. I agree with much of what you've described about Chad's playing but a musician should be a total package--sound and technique. Ever since Coltrane twisted the musical heads of generations of saxers with his sheets of sound the concept of playing, for most, has changed. But, we cannot ignore the total package. A car needs a good engine, transmission, etc., but it also needs tires. And, this is my point. Chad is a great young player but he doesn't, yet, have the complete package and, there's no guarantee that he'll ever get it. It's something you must develop. This is why I have never been a big fan of Joe Pass or Pat Martino. They're real burners/outstanding players but lack, for me, a complete musical package. And, even in their ballads, as a generalization, they invariably feel the need to show their incredible technique. Sometimes simplicity is the most musical rendition of a tune. Here's Kenny Burrell with a fat, lush sound in "My One and Only Love" who has ,with a few exceptions, a minimalist interpretation of this classic. What do you think? Thanks for your honest reply, J.
Play live . . . Marinero
https://youtu.be/Uonk83xh47E
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Originally Posted by Marinero
John
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I greatly enjoyed Chad’s rendition of the ballad. So sue me.
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Thanks, John and Graham for your honest feedback. Do you mean we ALL don't like Beluga caviar on garlic toast with ample doses of Beluga Gold vodka? What's the world coming to?????
Play live . . . Marinero
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I think Marinero's OP made some good points and things that I have thought about for a good while. I listen mostly to instrumental jazz with sax as the lead. As a sax guy, I agree with the OP that there seems to have been for quite a while a tendency for uni-educated players to want to show their chops and that means by playing fast. A lot of that pales in very short order for me. Playing vertically rather than linearly, ie lyrically, seems to be the thing to do and I get really bored with that.
There is no doubt that they are excellent technically but I agree with Marinero that the playing lack interest, soul. I don't want to stop progress but if this is what I have to put up with I'll be very selective about who I listen to and probably remain 'stuck' with some of the old guys. Lyrical players like Gerry Mulligan and Stan Getz will always be enjoyable. Yes they could burn when the tune called for it but it was the style of Bird that turned me off what he was doing back in the day.
I wonder sometimes if today's audiences really understand what contemporary players are doing when they rip of super fast arpeggios over the changes or if they just like the 'wall of sound'. I guess my age is showing.
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Originally Posted by Marinero
Comrades, come the revolution we shall all eat strawberries and cream
But comrade, I don't like strawberries and cream
Come the revolution, we shall all eat strawberries and cream, and like them.
John
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" But when you express your taste in words of objective description rather than subjective perception, then you get pushback. "
John A
Hi, J,
That's your subjective opinion as were my original remarks. I thought that was clear since I signed my name to the post.
Play live . . . Marinero
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Chad Lefkowitz-Brown is a brilliant musician.
He's also a great educator, he just plays beautifully.
Why confront him with the Coltrane genius?
Best
Kris
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Yay ... Marinero shits on young people for being technical, but unmusical .. Haven't we been here before?
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Originally Posted by Marinero
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
How could I demean Chad when I said " Chad is an outstanding musician, perhaps a savant,"--post #1. Did you fail to read or forget what I clearly said? I wish these discussions didn't have to descend to personal attacks devoid of logic, reason, and imbued with personal animus. Not everyone thinks the same. This is why these Forums can be a learning tool. . . to listen to people who have differing concepts of music than yours. A great musician is not one-sided. He should be multi-faceted for greatness. All the greats have it: Miles, Coltrane, Chet, Wes, Dexter, Kenny Baron, Mingus, Tyner, Billie Holiday, Sarah Vaughan, Johnny Hartmann, Art Blake, Zoot. If you think this is not true . . . then it's your opinion which may or may not have a foothold in reality.
Play live . . . Marinero
"COUNTABLE NOUNA savant is a person of great learning or natural ability. Collins dictionary
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Originally Posted by Lobomov
And he stoppeth one of three.
”Know’st not thou that Everything
Is Worse than it used to Be?”
(from ‘The Rime of the Ancient Marinero’.)
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Originally Posted by grahambop
What a pleasure to find a literate man! And, I can tell you . . . sometimes I feel like the Old Mariner(STC?). Very clever, G. I can always count on you for some quality humor . . . however, I confess to the crime. The albatross is dead.
Play live . . . . The Ancient Marinero
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I always knew my A-level in English Literature would come in handy one day.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
We must protect the albatross, G or we'll descend into the bowels of the irretractable, workingman's Jonathon Livingston Seagull.
El Antiguo Marinero
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Originally Posted by Marinero
I have no quarrel with the idea that "greatness" in a musician entails multi-facetedness. I do have a quarrel with your imputation that Lefkowitz-Brown, Pass and Martino lack that multi-facetedness, which I supported with examples and explanation of how I observe that multi-facetedness. I am not suggesting that you should share my tastes, only that i find your explanation of your tastes inconsistent with what strikes me as objective reality (that these three players have great command of ballad-playing, even if some people don't like how they play ballads). I bear no animus. If I did, I wouldn't be having the conversation in the first place. But this is all pointless and I feel silly for bothering.
JohnLast edited by John A.; 03-23-2021 at 11:53 PM.
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For Martino and ballads, check out We’ll Be Together Again. A duet album with a pianist.
Sublime ballad playing.
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One thing I like about Chad LB is how much old school influence there is in his playing. It’s not just the usual Tranebop thing
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Originally Posted by Marinero
Free: Surplus bags of strings (edmonton pickup...
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