Enclosure question on non natural diatonic scales and chord

[richay]

Although I'm not totally new to enclosures, I've decided to go out of my way to make it this month's theme to improve on them. I came across a bunch of people who do this rule of thumb/beginner type exercise on natural major scales and 7th chords from natural scale.


Soon, I started applying this exercise to the 3rds and 7ths on a 2-5-1 and eventually all of me. The problem is I would also like to employ this Idea on non-natural based chords like a Dom7b9 and also would like to do this to extensions of these on natural scale chords. As I'm sure you know the Dom7b9 comes from a few minor scales but the most popular one is the minor harmonic. So, I tried this rule of thumb on a minor harmonic scale (which is the first video linked below on a Major scale) but I don't know from which way I should be enclosing these notes - especially on the b6, 7, 1, 9 area where there are two consecutive minor 2nds separated by a minor 3rd.


So, my question is how would I go about applying this rule of thumb angle on the minor harmonic scale and non-natural diatonic chords?




[I did it on piano so it's easier to see what I'm doing] [Video, sheet music, and tab replies are also acceptable]


Here is the rule of thumb example:

Here it is applied to a 251 example:

Here I am applying it to all of me:

Thank you in advance.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

The enclosures could also come from Barry Harris' eight note scales

• major sixth (and) diminished
• minor sixth (and) diminished
• dominant seventh (and) diminished
• dominant seventh flatted fifth (and) diminished

You can enclose the basic chord with the notes of the diminished and vice versa. The diminished is a rootless 7/b9.

Another possibility is using the (double) diminished scale (aka wholestep/halfstep resp. halfstep/wholestep) for a 7/b9.

Charlie Banacos had a more general approach to approach notes:

Ed Byrne has ten general patterns that he applies to e.g. chord notes. They are in the sample pages of his books.

http://byrnejazz.com/upload/portfolio/17_2.pdf (p. 9 ff.)

[Christian Miller]

Although I'm not totally new to enclosures, I've decided to go out of my way to make it this month's theme to improve on them. I came across a bunch of people who do this rule of thumb/beginner type exercise on natural major scales and 7th chords from natural scale.


Soon, I started applying this exercise to the 3rds and 7ths on a 2-5-1 and eventually all of me. The problem is I would also like to employ this Idea on non-natural based chords like a Dom7b9 and also would like to do this to extensions of these on natural scale chords. As I'm sure you know the Dom7b9 comes from a few minor scales but the most popular one is the minor harmonic. So, I tried this rule of thumb on a minor harmonic scale (which is the first video linked below on a Major scale) but I don't know from which way I should be enclosing these notes - especially on the b6, 7, 1, 9 area where there are two consecutive minor 2nds separated by a minor 3rd.


So, my question is how would I go about applying this rule of thumb angle on the minor harmonic scale and non-natural diatonic chords?




[I did it on piano so it's easier to see what I'm doing] [Video, sheet music, and tab replies are also acceptable]


Here is the rule of thumb example:

Here it is applied to a 251 example:

Here I am applying it to all of me:

Thank you in advance.

The rule I remember Barry Harris teaching was
1) diatonic step above
2) chromatic half step below

and my own inference haha
3) any other note you can squish in you want three of them

So, for a G7b9 type chord you have half steps above and below each triad chord tone, which is fun.

[Christian Miller]

Nb- these “rules” have been used since the 18th century.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

The rule I remember Barry Harris teaching was
1) diatonic step above
2) chromatic half step below

and my own inference haha
3) any other note you can squish in you want three of them

So, for a G7b9 type chord you have half steps above and below each triad chord tone, which is fun.

b9-b7-7-1 is something I catch myself doing often. Be-bop.

But you could do 1-b3-9-b9 as well.

[Christian Miller]

b9-b7-7-1 is something I catch myself doing often. Be-bop.

But you could do 1-b3-9-b9 as well.

Please, no compound intervals in Barry Harris world haha

yes the first would be a natural choice for a V7b9 if you need three enclosing notes, and if you aren’t playing a V7b9 near a cadence …. Why are you not?

in that example you are enclosing the root of the dominant chord.

The second example would be enclosing a chord tone of the related dim7

Despite what I said about upper diatonic neighbours b2-7-1 on a I minor chord is VERY bebop.

[Christian Miller]

Also in Barry world, the 5 4 3 2 phrases are well worth studying; they differ slightly whether they happen on a major, minor or dominant chord.

[rpjazzguitar]

Looks like the reference just listed a lot of possibilities.

Might be a good idea to make your own list and try them out against different chord types and make a note of which ones sound good to you.

If you duplicate the ones in the book, that's fine and if you make up your own and sound more like you, even better.

[Boss Man Zwiebelsohn]

[...] but I don't think it's very viable for making musical lines.[...]

I disagree.

(BTW he mentions Garry Dial, so this is from the Banacos school.)

[Bobby Timmons]

^ You changed my mind, Bop Head. Great lesson!

[pamosmusic]

Yeah after the diatonic above and chromatic below, I tend to treat the chromatic enclosures as constant structures. So like the exact same intervallic structure on every note whether it’s diatonic or not.

Those are super fun, though I have a lot more trouble having them come out organically in playing. The simple stuff is usually best, though the weirder stuff is fun just for seeing what sounds good.

[PatrickWD]

Although I'm not totally new to enclosures, I've decided to go out of my way to make it this month's theme to improve on them. I came across a bunch of people who do this rule of thumb/beginner type exercise on natural major scales and 7th chords from natural scale.


Soon, I started applying this exercise to the 3rds and 7ths on a 2-5-1 and eventually all of me. The problem is I would also like to employ this Idea on non-natural based chords like a Dom7b9 and also would like to do this to extensions of these on natural scale chords. As I'm sure you know the Dom7b9 comes from a few minor scales but the most popular one is the minor harmonic. So, I tried this rule of thumb on a minor harmonic scale (which is the first video linked below on a Major scale) but I don't know from which way I should be enclosing these notes - especially on the b6, 7, 1, 9 area where there are two consecutive minor 2nds separated by a minor 3rd.


So, my question is how would I go about applying this rule of thumb angle on the minor harmonic scale and non-natural diatonic chords?




[I did it on piano so it's easier to see what I'm doing] [Video, sheet music, and tab replies are also acceptable]


Here is the rule of thumb example:

Here it is applied to a 251 example:

Here I am applying it to all of me:

Thank you in advance.

When i'm listening to your first video where you show your enclosure, it seems to me you are using the following rules:
1: When the closest scale note is a whole step above the target, play upper diatonic (scale note) to chromatic above to chromatic below to target.
2: When the closest scale note is a half step above the target, play upper diationic (scale note ) to a double chromatic from below to target.

When using for instance the fifth mode of harmonic minor over a 7b9 chord, you can just use the same rules.
For instance the b9 on a E7b9 using the A harmonic minor scale would be: scale note above (G#), chromatic above(F#), chromatic below(E), target (F)

The only difference will be the larger distance between the scale note above and the chromatic above.